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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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yuria hosts Richard Saunders and Stefan

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cyka Richard I'm feeling cleansed as at

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the moment Evan you're looking somehow

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cleaner than before what happened I've

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been detoxing detox I've been thoroughly

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detoxed yes I've got a new system that

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I've tried and it's fantastic I've heard

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about that in fact we have a bit of news

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about that later in the show this new

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system of detox you oh it's amazing

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amazing I so I'm feeling very refreshed

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and great to be here on this lucky lucky

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13th show it's the 13th show and it goes

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out on a Friday whoa Gary it happens to

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be friday the 16 13 case we can make

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something for example I mean the other

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side make inferences out of anything so

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we can't do absolutely a great show we

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have for you today hello skeptic zone

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listeners we have part one of a series

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of interviews with Barry Williams the

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legend himself a big legend of this rain

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skipper the original skeptic of

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Australia basin he looks just like Santa

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Claus no he is and he lies himself out

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to all the guys he does oh no he's been

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involved with Australian skeptics for

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almost 30 years he's just retired ah so

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I run round to his place and I got a lot

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of his memories about oh the skeptic

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started and today he's going to tell us

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about how the skeptic started adventures

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with water diviners and meeting uri

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geller ah he'd have some real yarns to

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tell cuz especially back then in the day

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when he started all that stuff that UFOs

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and chariots of the gods all that stuff

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that was around then and everyone don't

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believe anything we they still do I know

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they don't believe anything they ever

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thankfully Barry's been holding their

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fourth yes no it's very interesting

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stuff and then we've got a new segment

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with our good friend e runs so give

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that's called a grain of salt grain of

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salt in a sum which hopefully you don't

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take with a grain of salt don't take it

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with a vendor so full of substrate

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assault now glad we mentioned detox dr.

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AG

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a serious look at detoxed yeah oh yeah

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it's amazing how many impurities are

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floating around your body isn't it yes

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detox it's a wonderful thing and it's

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about it's funny how almost every new

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age every sort of alternative medicine

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thing says that something inside you

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needs cleansing it's wrong isn't it it's

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like your liver needs cleansing your

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brain needs cleansing something that's

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that'll be great doctor AC goods yeah

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that's a good doctor 'he followed by of

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course your new information about detox

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stay tuned are the infomercial into my

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sauce they tuned to that one it's about

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a new product which i'm going out the

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tribe right after the show it'll work

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and then we can have their round up with

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my koala handled his news and views and

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a great think tank this week with our

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special guest Dave the happy singer Oh

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David have you seen over there busy

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what's that a petition that was it Peter

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sure oh you must know I mean I know I

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strike you know I was actually driving

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past it and I got my dates mixed up and

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I forgot to drop in never mind yeah we

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tried a new club so it was quite good

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this one penny of keno and bingo yes Oh

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gotta love the Aussie clubs gotta love

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the other clubs I excellent sense about

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the action-packed show look why don't

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you and I just nip round the back up a

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quick detox yeah it let's quit cleansing

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for cleansing listen to the show and

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we'll come back at the end away will and

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it's going to be great well thanks for

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for almost 30 years the face of

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Australian skeptics has been Barry

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Williams former president chief

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executive officer editor of the magazine

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the skeptic and life member of the

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organization Barry has a wealth of

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experience and knowledge in this the

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first part of a series of interviews I

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start by asking Barry how he began his

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and yeah I sorted Smith on television

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there there was a big famous UFO case in

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New Zealand where an aeroplane fly

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between north and south island that spot

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of these lights and happen to have a

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channel 10 Australia television crew

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aboard and he took video of it and we'll

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film I suppose in those days and there

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was a big story of the over the media

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this is about 1979 and I saw a dick on

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television on IQ him reputation that's

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all saying that what we needed was some

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sort of an organization that what the

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media could go to when a story came up

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like this without they tried getting on

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a physics professors at the University

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you're obviously too busy to talk to the

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media and that's all the stuff he said

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we need some sort of organization who

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can get with this information get some

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intelligent comment to appear what a

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brilliant bloody idea the only in that

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it's already balita I've never before

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that had never written a letter to

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somebody I saw on television so they

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didn't know and I've known Tim nice i've

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seen but I write the Dickens said I love

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that idea and if you do start well I

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want to be a part of it and I got a

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couple months later I got a letter back

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from dick's angle it's just started are

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you still interested in us writing backs

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it's short and he put me in touch with

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Mark Plummer in Melbourne who was the

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moving force behind the very early days

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and mark suggested a few things i might

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do try to find a handy sent me the list

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of the people in yourself well see we're

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interested and i got players together

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and victoria started their own branch

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and they asked us if we want to and

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asked me what i like to do because i was

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the most regular contributor our

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correspondent

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and solid year so we got a got a group

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together from people in Sydney that were

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interested in subscribing to the skeptic

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when it came out which is shortly did

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did thereafter and it went on from there

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that was in nineteen eighty but I've

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asked everybody who was involved in the

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foundation skeptics nobody knows the

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exact yeah yeah it's the Miss yes it is

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instru I'll look hundreds of things like

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this get off the ground every day

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probably you know and most of them found

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were in the first three months you know

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the fact that we've been going to be 30

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years it's rather remarkable that's true

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in the very first issue of the skeptic

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magazine which was a full pager

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broadsheet sort of yep there it was

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nineteen eighty one which makes our

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journal one of the oldest skeptical

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journals I think the only one that beats

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us is the skeptical Inquirer which

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started in from memory not in 76 so yeah

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I don't think there are any others

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between them and us no you're probably

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right and the very first issue of course

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has a big picture of james randi there

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now james randi has been instrumental

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and was instrumental in i guess

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inspiring dick smith to keep this

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organization off it started off and this

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was pre skeptic share dick obviously had

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had a lot of inquiries about water

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divining and being the man he is he he

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thought he might like to test some of

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these people he was a subscriber to the

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skeptical Inquirer as was Phillip Adams

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and they knew each other and they

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jointly bought out James Randi to do the

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testing because they knew James had done

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some testing overseas and also on board

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was Richard the late Richard Carlton the

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distinguished journalist and had a

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couple of other people and they bought

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the Randy out and dicks on his property

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out of the North Ryder recall actually

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laid pipes under the ground with them a

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manifold that went in so they could

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change which when the war was going

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through it must have cost a fortune you

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just attached it did yeah I didn't and

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of course a number of people turned up I

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don't ever recall the exact numbers but

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there are a dozen or so at least all of

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Hampshire was sure they can do on water

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of course they did I once they did under

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control conditions didn't need better

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than chance yeah it's as you know

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something we've been doing ever since

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ever since I haven't restored you can't

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convince people of mean you can show

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them that they're not actually doing

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what they claim they can do but they

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still want to believe it so but the good

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thing was about those tests they would

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have been forgotten in history or

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written up in some report but Nick Smith

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had the good sense to arrange for the

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whole thing to be filmed it out of that

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film as you know is still being used

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widely to that yeah yeah I mean it went

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away around model of commercial

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television channels which I remember

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where it was 77 I think you're right and

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they've got a bit of a few roar of the

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court a bit of a few or at the time

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because there are a lot of behind nearly

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everybody lives in the bush believes the

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waters of artists and fight boy yeah am

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I probably Campbell dead twigs or it's a

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war or pendulum so yep granny's nick is

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there anything whatsoever to do with the

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then brooke has you know yourself when

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we decided we should do something about

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this we did several tests with the

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skeptics with another one in conjunction

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with channel and several years ago in

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which we bought dividers from all over

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the country to trial ahead and again and

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I've met any more success than enchants

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would dictate and then you've done

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several yourself often you meet a master

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and and we've done a lot of water

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divining tests and we've never found

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anyone who can find water if they're

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that already know which it better let

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should say something but when you made a

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decision that you should put all this

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together on that video hopefully greats

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big water divining DVD that's now gone

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everywhere I mean we get the rigging

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Croatian about that from schools mainly

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and other people around the country and

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everything again I get a letter from

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somebody that not quite the old

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traditional thumbnail dipped in tar but

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you know they were she said my

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bushes but how they fiddled it obviously

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and I want to test they were retested

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them that and I said in the DVD and

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correct through medium of our challenge

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for notary and brassy price it gets out

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of them and they have long conversations

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I've ever seen any of them actually come

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to a test no no it's been a long time

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since we've actually tested anybody like

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that I think the the DVD serves two

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purposes one that educates people into

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it it stops a lot of people in their

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tracks coming to be tested because they

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can see that well yeah that's right it's

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it's it's one of the things I've done

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through up all my time with the skeptics

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and we've had this challenge up that if

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anybody can demonstrate any paranormal

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claim will poem various sums and

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currently hundred thousand dollars the

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first step is when they contact me I say

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to them we need it before we can test

272
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you we need to know exactly what it is

273
00:11:10,819 --> 00:11:09,240
you claim you can do you've got to be

274
00:11:12,590 --> 00:11:10,829
explicit you go to your calcite I'm

275
00:11:18,049 --> 00:11:12,600
psychic give me the money obviously that

276
00:11:19,910 --> 00:11:18,059
there I work so you say write it now

277
00:11:21,769 --> 00:11:19,920
tell us you know if you think you can

278
00:11:23,030 --> 00:11:21,779
predict the future with accuracy well we

279
00:11:24,530 --> 00:11:23,040
want you to write down you know

280
00:11:27,019 --> 00:11:24,540
predictions and you've gotta send them

281
00:11:28,639 --> 00:11:27,029
before the future happens or if you have

282
00:11:30,139 --> 00:11:28,649
claimed you can levitate you know we

283
00:11:30,730 --> 00:11:30,149
want you to say you can stand in the

284
00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:30,740
middle of you

285
00:11:34,990 --> 00:11:32,450
our dream and float up to the ceiling

286
00:11:37,510 --> 00:11:35,000
whatever you can flame you can do now

287
00:11:39,430 --> 00:11:37,520
when I ask people to do that almost

288
00:11:41,620 --> 00:11:39,440
invariably that's the laughter here oh

289
00:11:43,510 --> 00:11:41,630
yeah they can't do it because they can't

290
00:11:45,519 --> 00:11:43,520
they have this little thought they're

291
00:11:47,019 --> 00:11:45,529
mine you know they might have guessed

292
00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:47,029
the winner of the last melbourne cup of

293
00:11:50,380 --> 00:11:48,890
life what I've thought Jesus old r t

294
00:11:52,570 --> 00:11:50,390
mobile's not looking too good i wonder

295
00:11:53,980 --> 00:11:52,580
how long she'll last and then when

296
00:11:56,230 --> 00:11:53,990
something happens they they got the

297
00:11:58,389 --> 00:11:56,240
winner or right or a tmobile falls off

298
00:12:00,730 --> 00:11:58,399
the twig a week later I think I must be

299
00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:00,740
so lucky well that's the sort of thing

300
00:12:07,630 --> 00:12:05,360
we all doin man of us are you we all buy

301
00:12:09,699 --> 00:12:07,640
chats make some lucky guesses I mean

302
00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:09,709
have it be unusual if we didn't it there

303
00:12:12,490 --> 00:12:11,360
were never any coincidence and the life

304
00:12:14,500 --> 00:12:12,500
at least somebody was actually pulling

305
00:12:17,110 --> 00:12:14,510
the strings the fact that coincidences

306
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:17,120
happen is indication to me that makes is

307
00:12:22,570 --> 00:12:19,730
flowing streams but we see coincidences

308
00:12:25,540 --> 00:12:22,580
our little pattern making mind says as

309
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:25,550
connection there and the connection is

310
00:12:29,370 --> 00:12:27,050
usually only because you think there is

311
00:12:32,139 --> 00:12:29,380
it that connection between although

312
00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:32,149
external connection yeah now you're one

313
00:12:38,500 --> 00:12:34,250
of the few people i've met who's

314
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:38,510
actually met you regular and briefly i

315
00:12:44,590 --> 00:12:42,170
think i was very briefly i had a job

316
00:12:48,579 --> 00:12:44,600
with the American consulate in Sydney

317
00:12:50,639 --> 00:12:48,589
and in their commercial sections around

318
00:12:54,069 --> 00:12:50,649
the trade exhibitions for a while and

319
00:12:56,949 --> 00:12:54,079
one of my friends in in the Visa Section

320
00:12:59,610 --> 00:12:56,959
rang me and said guess his ups here

321
00:13:02,500 --> 00:12:59,620
looking for a visa and I said

322
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:02,510
you better tell me up your cloak he said

323
00:13:06,580 --> 00:13:04,130
uri geller and he said you want our side

324
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:06,590
ladder that's all right so we're stuck

325
00:13:09,910 --> 00:13:07,850
to their session there he was standing

326
00:13:13,090 --> 00:13:09,920
there waiting please please for the u.s.

327
00:13:15,070 --> 00:13:13,100
to be clearly was here on up the rod run

328
00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:15,080
successful visit he was sort of

329
00:13:20,590 --> 00:13:17,690
reprising his great successes here in

330
00:13:22,810 --> 00:13:20,600
the late 70s in came back and there's

331
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:22,820
these new agey groups have set up

332
00:13:27,580 --> 00:13:25,610
meetings or logo in this trailer and the

333
00:13:29,500 --> 00:13:27,590
I think he did two or three of them and

334
00:13:32,170 --> 00:13:29,510
they were attracting audiences in the

335
00:13:33,610 --> 00:13:32,180
single digits right mother killing the

336
00:13:36,700 --> 00:13:33,620
car door like he originally had done

337
00:13:39,310 --> 00:13:36,710
yeah and of course as is usually the

338
00:13:41,230 --> 00:13:39,320
case with people like Yuri the suddenly

339
00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:41,240
a relative back and that you cut back in

340
00:13:46,390 --> 00:13:44,690
back home gets L&S early he recalled

341
00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:46,400
that he can have the same excuse seeing

342
00:13:52,420 --> 00:13:49,760
a little later and Senator I've gone

343
00:13:54,550 --> 00:13:52,430
upstairs and there he was not you

344
00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:54,560
obviously it's a cuckoo and you're

345
00:14:03,100 --> 00:13:57,530
talking about Union appropriate yes see

346
00:14:05,230 --> 00:14:03,110
no place there that's a gift from the

347
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:05,240
people in Germany the diagram son stayed

348
00:14:10,030 --> 00:14:07,490
with many went on a five-week exchanged

349
00:14:13,180 --> 00:14:10,040
visit that there could be event um

350
00:14:14,950 --> 00:14:13,190
anyways it and I introduced myself said

351
00:14:17,740 --> 00:14:14,960
I'm very moving from Australia skeptics

352
00:14:19,510 --> 00:14:17,750
and and he had a black with him who I

353
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:19,520
didn't catch the name at the time of

354
00:14:26,290 --> 00:14:21,650
turns out he's another alleged psychic

355
00:14:30,670 --> 00:14:26,300
called Riley G and then familiar to us

356
00:14:33,190 --> 00:14:30,680
all yeah I Riley started sending me

357
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:33,200
emails out they said I I said au the

358
00:14:37,470 --> 00:14:34,970
psychic equivalent of kellogg's special

359
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:37,480
k /

360
00:14:43,900 --> 00:14:40,930
it was an it rip but anyway uri

361
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:43,910
laparotomy a la sixth astonished by

362
00:14:48,550 --> 00:14:46,730
because he knew I was a skeptic I know

363
00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:48,560
James Randi I know the skeptics true if

364
00:14:52,210 --> 00:14:50,000
we don't think much of him we recognize

365
00:14:55,329 --> 00:14:52,220
a magician yeah trying to pull over

366
00:14:57,340 --> 00:14:55,339
there alive that's obviously he was

367
00:15:00,160 --> 00:14:57,350
determined to convince me that he was

368
00:15:01,780 --> 00:15:00,170
real yeah he and each one of these

369
00:15:02,980 --> 00:15:01,790
people who can't just stand there and

370
00:15:04,210 --> 00:15:02,990
talk he wants to get into your fight

371
00:15:05,740 --> 00:15:04,220
should have clothes on clothesline you

372
00:15:09,340 --> 00:15:05,750
keep backing up against the wall yeah

373
00:15:12,490 --> 00:15:09,350
and he the intensity of a man astonished

374
00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:12,500
me I didn't believe her it made me think

375
00:15:21,100 --> 00:15:18,110
that if he was I if he knew clearly that

376
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:21,110
he was bugging at all he wouldn't have

377
00:15:25,660 --> 00:15:23,690
been so intense about convincing me yeah

378
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:25,670
that's interesting I tend to agree that

379
00:15:29,769 --> 00:15:27,890
there's if you've got the natural

380
00:15:31,420 --> 00:15:29,779
ability you wouldn't constantly be

381
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:31,430
trying to convince people it's true but

382
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:34,130
if you're faking it that occurs to me

383
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:36,490
that that's what you yeah yeah and

384
00:15:46,420 --> 00:15:43,130
anyway I I chatrium for about maybe 20

385
00:15:48,519 --> 00:15:46,430
minutes and and he had not convinced me

386
00:15:50,290 --> 00:15:48,529
and that and that was the end of my

387
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:50,300
meeting with hearing or actually but I

388
00:15:54,220 --> 00:15:52,250
did hear from raleigh g several times

389
00:15:56,670 --> 00:15:54,230
I'll he told me he could he was one of

390
00:15:58,569 --> 00:15:56,680
these early ones predicting crawl embers

391
00:16:00,010 --> 00:15:58,579
predicting murderers and things like

392
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:00,020
that mature you become much more popular

393
00:16:04,569 --> 00:16:03,050
since then I'm Vitaly oh yeah to the

394
00:16:08,050 --> 00:16:04,579
great detriment I think of people's

395
00:16:10,210 --> 00:16:08,060
common sense but he kept sending me

396
00:16:11,660 --> 00:16:10,220
these nothing he he claimed it worked as

397
00:16:13,300 --> 00:16:11,670
a police officer in New York

398
00:16:15,860 --> 00:16:13,310
or something for a number of years I

399
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:15,870
just you tighten up reserve in fact

400
00:16:32,550 --> 00:16:31,530
hi Phil Plait from Bad Astronomy calm

401
00:16:34,950 --> 00:16:32,560
and the James Randi Educational

402
00:16:36,810 --> 00:16:34,960
Foundation here if you want to get an

403
00:16:38,970 --> 00:16:36,820
American take on things like moon

404
00:16:41,070 --> 00:16:38,980
hoaxers astrology chiropractors

405
00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:41,080
creationists anti-vaxxers global warming

406
00:16:44,790 --> 00:16:42,910
denialists homeopaths psychics UFO

407
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:44,800
believers and doom choirs of any flavor

408
00:16:51,750 --> 00:16:48,610
then go to bad astronomy calm Randy org

409
00:16:53,730 --> 00:16:51,760
or skeptic blog org and there you'll be

410
00:16:55,530 --> 00:16:53,740
able to read me ranting railing frothing

411
00:16:58,020 --> 00:16:55,540
and foaming about hoaxes nonsense

412
00:17:09,230 --> 00:16:58,030
pseudoscience anti-science and anyone

413
00:17:22,350 --> 00:17:12,050
this will take this with a grain of salt

414
00:17:24,630 --> 00:17:22,360
he's around second what I'd like to talk

415
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:24,640
to you about today is what happens when

416
00:17:29,660 --> 00:17:26,770
you either find out that you thought

417
00:17:32,130 --> 00:17:29,670
you're a skeptic or become a skeptic and

418
00:17:35,910 --> 00:17:32,140
you want to become more active what we

419
00:17:38,490 --> 00:17:35,920
often call a capital s skeptic before I

420
00:17:40,170 --> 00:17:38,500
start talking about what you actually do

421
00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:40,180
I want to first share with you my own

422
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:42,130
story about how I became a skeptic and

423
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:44,290
the reason is that I think many of you

424
00:17:48,540 --> 00:17:45,850
will probably share a similar experience

425
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:48,550
and I think that's important because the

426
00:17:52,010 --> 00:17:50,530
the things I'm going to describe our

427
00:17:55,250 --> 00:17:52,020
lessons I've learned from my own

428
00:17:58,680 --> 00:17:55,260
experience in becoming an active skeptic

429
00:18:02,190 --> 00:17:58,690
so probably I have to point out that

430
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:02,200
even as a child I was skeptical I I was

431
00:18:07,380 --> 00:18:05,170
I grew up in a environment that tended

432
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:07,390
to be promoting religion and I was not

433
00:18:12,270 --> 00:18:10,570
religious I read I was very interested

434
00:18:14,790 --> 00:18:12,280
in things like the works of Erich von

435
00:18:17,220 --> 00:18:14,800
Daniken I initially believed them that

436
00:18:18,330 --> 00:18:17,230
was when I was nine then I stopped

437
00:18:20,670 --> 00:18:18,340
believing in them and I think I was

438
00:18:22,710 --> 00:18:20,680
about ten the time simply because I

439
00:18:25,020 --> 00:18:22,720
realized by myself without any

440
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:25,030
assistance that things didn't just make

441
00:18:31,930 --> 00:18:28,610
sense they just didn't stack up and

442
00:18:33,580 --> 00:18:31,940
I have built a skeptical approach to

443
00:18:36,580 --> 00:18:33,590
life through that and also through my

444
00:18:40,030 --> 00:18:36,590
immense interesting in science and in

445
00:18:41,980 --> 00:18:40,040
particular in physics and astronomy yet

446
00:18:43,299 --> 00:18:41,990
in 2002 which is the year i actually

447
00:18:45,539 --> 00:18:43,309
discovered that there is such a thing as

448
00:18:48,610 --> 00:18:45,549
a skeptic i had been seeing in a

449
00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:48,620
chiropractor regularly for back problems

450
00:18:55,090 --> 00:18:53,110
and i had used homeopathic remedies for

451
00:18:56,950 --> 00:18:55,100
analogy that I developed against my

452
00:18:58,299 --> 00:18:56,960
contact lenses so it was definitely a

453
00:19:00,480 --> 00:18:58,309
mixed bag I was not particularly well

454
00:19:02,860 --> 00:19:00,490
informed and I was not it wasn't like

455
00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:02,870
skepticism was something that permeated

456
00:19:10,210 --> 00:19:07,130
my life and then in 2002 I met a mother

457
00:19:11,980 --> 00:19:10,220
I'd so much my kids school that very

458
00:19:14,289 --> 00:19:11,990
proudly proclaimed to me that her she

459
00:19:18,299 --> 00:19:14,299
will not let her children be poisoned by

460
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:18,309
vaccines so after I told her quite

461
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:20,330
elaborate leave that i'm not

462
00:19:24,010 --> 00:19:21,770
particularly appreciative of the fact

463
00:19:25,510 --> 00:19:24,020
that her children are spared the job at

464
00:19:28,539 --> 00:19:25,520
the expense of my the herd immunity

465
00:19:31,060 --> 00:19:28,549
provided by my children i went online to

466
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:31,070
look for a bit more information and i

467
00:19:35,260 --> 00:19:33,650
found quite a lot of information one of

468
00:19:37,180 --> 00:19:35,270
the things i found was the australian

469
00:19:41,580 --> 00:19:37,190
skeptics website which had a very good

470
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:41,590
article and vaccinations on it and i

471
00:19:46,180 --> 00:19:44,090
started reading the website and over the

472
00:19:50,890 --> 00:19:46,190
next three days I spend a lot of time

473
00:19:52,780 --> 00:19:50,900
online probably read every single page

474
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:52,790
and article on the website which is

475
00:19:59,770 --> 00:19:56,690
quite elaborate quiet expense expensive

476
00:20:02,020 --> 00:19:59,780
and and it was just a revelation for me

477
00:20:03,539 --> 00:20:02,030
it was quite an amazing process that I

478
00:20:07,090 --> 00:20:03,549
went through in just three short days

479
00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:07,100
because I probably you should probably

480
00:20:10,390 --> 00:20:09,110
realize that I'd spent a significant

481
00:20:12,909 --> 00:20:10,400
proportion of my life being an

482
00:20:14,409 --> 00:20:12,919
argumentative know-it-all weirdo and

483
00:20:16,030 --> 00:20:14,419
then and then all of a sudden i

484
00:20:18,590 --> 00:20:16,040
discovered that argumentative know it

485
00:20:20,529 --> 00:20:18,600
all weirdos had an organization

486
00:20:24,260 --> 00:20:20,539
well it was just that was a fantastic

487
00:20:27,950 --> 00:20:24,270
discovery for me I was not alone so um

488
00:20:31,279 --> 00:20:27,960
so that was my it took me three days to

489
00:20:34,490 --> 00:20:31,289
become a skeptic to know that there was

490
00:20:36,830 --> 00:20:34,500
a name to my approach to my my view on

491
00:20:40,130 --> 00:20:36,840
life there's a reason why I'm telling

492
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:40,140
you this story as I said I was a skeptic

493
00:20:43,490 --> 00:20:41,730
throughout my life but I didn't know

494
00:20:45,380 --> 00:20:43,500
about it and until recently that was

495
00:20:48,529 --> 00:20:45,390
very common it still is quite common I

496
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:48,539
meet people every every week who are

497
00:20:52,250 --> 00:20:50,490
skeptical in their approach who are

498
00:20:54,049 --> 00:20:52,260
skipped some times passionate about

499
00:20:55,700 --> 00:20:54,059
their skepticism but don't even know

500
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:55,710
that there is such a thing as organized

501
00:20:59,600 --> 00:20:57,450
skepticism they do not know that there

502
00:21:01,430 --> 00:20:59,610
is a word to describe their approach and

503
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:01,440
when they hear i'm from australian

504
00:21:04,820 --> 00:21:03,090
skeptics and I described to them what it

505
00:21:06,140 --> 00:21:04,830
is they're surprised to say yeah well

506
00:21:07,820 --> 00:21:06,150
you know that makes a lot of sense you

507
00:21:09,649 --> 00:21:07,830
know how do I become how do I know more

508
00:21:10,820 --> 00:21:09,659
or how do I find out more and they're

509
00:21:11,810 --> 00:21:10,830
skeptics but they're not capitalize

510
00:21:15,310 --> 00:21:11,820
skeptics and they don't know that

511
00:21:17,930 --> 00:21:15,320
there's a name to what they are the main

512
00:21:21,380 --> 00:21:17,940
obviously the things have changed a lot

513
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:21,390
of things things since 2000 2002 mostly

514
00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:23,010
because of the internet because we now

515
00:21:26,029 --> 00:21:24,720
have podcasts and social networks and

516
00:21:29,180 --> 00:21:26,039
they have made a huge difference because

517
00:21:31,070 --> 00:21:29,190
a lot of a lot of people now find a lot

518
00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:31,080
about skepticism through that and that

519
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:33,360
has made a big difference in penetration

520
00:21:37,310 --> 00:21:35,370
of skeptical thought into mainstream

521
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:37,320
consciousness but there's still a long

522
00:21:41,330 --> 00:21:39,090
way to go and what I'd like to do now is

523
00:21:44,750 --> 00:21:41,340
discuss a few things that you can do to

524
00:21:46,310 --> 00:21:44,760
become a more active skeptic and a few

525
00:21:48,409 --> 00:21:46,320
things that I've learned along the way

526
00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:48,419
about the best approach to become more

527
00:21:54,649 --> 00:21:52,320
active skeptic the first thing and most

528
00:21:56,510 --> 00:21:54,659
important thing in my opinion is to be

529
00:21:59,149 --> 00:21:56,520
open proud and vocal about your

530
00:22:01,310 --> 00:21:59,159
skepticism now that doesn't mean that

531
00:22:03,620 --> 00:22:01,320
any time somebody says something you

532
00:22:05,210 --> 00:22:03,630
start laughing or you could come you

533
00:22:08,169 --> 00:22:05,220
know you push your ideas and thoughts

534
00:22:10,370 --> 00:22:08,179
and comments regardless of the situation

535
00:22:12,289 --> 00:22:10,380
what he does mean is that when you open

536
00:22:14,210 --> 00:22:12,299
the opportunity arises you do not shy

537
00:22:16,279 --> 00:22:14,220
away from stating a position you do not

538
00:22:19,220 --> 00:22:16,289
hide the fact you're a skeptic you say

539
00:22:20,330 --> 00:22:19,230
no this doesn't make sense this that you

540
00:22:24,110 --> 00:22:20,340
know provide me with more information

541
00:22:25,850 --> 00:22:24,120
you act like a skeptic you try to

542
00:22:27,950 --> 00:22:25,860
promote skepticism in critical

543
00:22:31,100 --> 00:22:27,960
king of a muddle credulous and fuzzy

544
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:31,110
thinking and in doing so there are a few

545
00:22:36,380 --> 00:22:34,890
things a few tips I'd like to promote as

546
00:22:39,049 --> 00:22:36,390
probably the most important things in

547
00:22:42,740 --> 00:22:39,059
terms of the approach and those are to

548
00:22:44,799 --> 00:22:42,750
be polite informed and humble and I'd

549
00:22:47,180 --> 00:22:44,809
like to discuss those in some detail

550
00:22:48,410 --> 00:22:47,190
first of all regarding the impolite it's

551
00:22:50,690 --> 00:22:48,420
always a good thing I'm sure your mother

552
00:22:53,030 --> 00:22:50,700
told you that but when you become a

553
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:53,040
skeptic for the first time there's

554
00:22:59,840 --> 00:22:55,530
usually an urge to tell the world about

555
00:23:02,000 --> 00:22:59,850
it and the problem is with that is that

556
00:23:03,830 --> 00:23:02,010
the odds are stacked against you

557
00:23:06,110 --> 00:23:03,840
managing to convince somebody who

558
00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:06,120
believes in psychics that John Edwards

559
00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:08,130
does not really communicate with the

560
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:10,799
dead even if you do not tell that person

561
00:23:17,270 --> 00:23:15,210
that he's a okay that the person

562
00:23:19,909 --> 00:23:17,280
is probably more anyway that is besides

563
00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:19,919
the point the thing is that you should

564
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:21,600
be polite because you want to achieve

565
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:24,330
something you want to somehow engage in

566
00:23:29,539 --> 00:23:26,490
discussion and you will not achieve that

567
00:23:31,159 --> 00:23:29,549
by not being polite my suggestion based

568
00:23:35,180 --> 00:23:31,169
on my experience of the last seven years

569
00:23:38,090 --> 00:23:35,190
is to usually wait until challenged do

570
00:23:40,850 --> 00:23:38,100
not just push your ideas in your agenda

571
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:40,860
but if challenged then definitely that's

572
00:23:44,210 --> 00:23:42,690
that's a good time to start discussions

573
00:23:45,710 --> 00:23:44,220
and in particularly if somebody is

574
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:45,720
peddling their beliefs if somebody is

575
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:47,730
trying to either sell a book or two to

576
00:23:54,260 --> 00:23:49,650
convince other people that's a good time

577
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:54,270
when you can be openly aggressive i

578
00:23:58,909 --> 00:23:55,770
would say about your skepticism and

579
00:24:00,200 --> 00:23:58,919
openly challenge them and then if

580
00:24:03,140 --> 00:24:00,210
they're pushing their agenda they're

581
00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:03,150
fair game as far as I'm concerned the

582
00:24:10,789 --> 00:24:07,049
next thing is to be informed read listen

583
00:24:12,289 --> 00:24:10,799
ask people watch and make sure that when

584
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:12,299
you are faced with the situation that

585
00:24:17,060 --> 00:24:15,330
you feel needs raising a flag you know

586
00:24:21,710 --> 00:24:17,070
what cold reading is for example in

587
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:21,720
enough detail to challenge to dent the

588
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:24,330
confidence of that psychic believer that

589
00:24:28,220 --> 00:24:26,610
psychics are really doing what they're

590
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:28,230
saying they're doing you don't have to

591
00:24:31,850 --> 00:24:29,970
be an expert on anything but you have to

592
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:31,860
know enough to make a different

593
00:24:36,150 --> 00:24:34,450
the best thing you can do the best

594
00:24:38,370 --> 00:24:36,160
things you can do to learn more for

595
00:24:39,810 --> 00:24:38,380
example go to skeptical websites look at

596
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:39,820
their book lists and start reading

597
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:41,650
there's lots and lots of books you can

598
00:24:45,390 --> 00:24:43,450
learn from a little many of many

599
00:24:47,940 --> 00:24:45,400
websites will have book lists like the

600
00:24:50,250 --> 00:24:47,950
skeptics condo do you watch penn &

601
00:24:52,860 --> 00:24:50,260
teller's series that's a lot of

602
00:24:55,650 --> 00:24:52,870
joy be concentrated in two 30-minute

603
00:24:58,170 --> 00:24:55,660
episodes and it's quite fantastic quite

604
00:25:00,480 --> 00:24:58,180
a fantastic resource subscribe to

605
00:25:02,550 --> 00:25:00,490
magazines are local the skeptic magazine

606
00:25:05,970 --> 00:25:02,560
skeptical Inquirer Michael Sherman

607
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:05,980
skeptic and others join online

608
00:25:10,910 --> 00:25:09,010
discussion groups there are also some

609
00:25:13,620 --> 00:25:10,920
fantastic podcasts as you all know

610
00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:13,630
Rachel mentioned the skeptic zone at the

611
00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:16,000
Skippy start to the universal skeptic

612
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:17,110
allergy which was the very first

613
00:25:20,730 --> 00:25:18,970
skeptical podcast if you're not

614
00:25:23,060 --> 00:25:20,740
listening to at least a few of the

615
00:25:25,230 --> 00:25:23,070
skeptical podcasts you're missing out

616
00:25:26,940 --> 00:25:25,240
another step you can take to learn more

617
00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:26,950
is to get involved in local skeptical

618
00:25:32,130 --> 00:25:29,110
groups now of course on that I'm pretty

619
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:32,140
much preaching to the choir but I

620
00:25:37,110 --> 00:25:34,930
suspect some of you are only coming to

621
00:25:39,630 --> 00:25:37,120
the pub and to those of you do I

622
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:39,640
encourage you to come to dinner meetings

623
00:25:44,820 --> 00:25:42,490
to go to lectures and other events that

624
00:25:47,250 --> 00:25:44,830
are either organized by skeptical

625
00:25:50,130 --> 00:25:47,260
organizations or that are likely to be

626
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:50,140
attended by many skeptics if you sign up

627
00:25:55,860 --> 00:25:53,290
to the Sydney skeptics meetup group for

628
00:25:57,420 --> 00:25:55,870
example the you will get notices of

629
00:25:59,760 --> 00:25:57,430
lectures and other events that are

630
00:26:02,190 --> 00:25:59,770
likely to be attended by many skeptical

631
00:26:04,170 --> 00:26:02,200
skeptics are of interest to skeptics and

632
00:26:07,230 --> 00:26:04,180
you will learn a lot from these events

633
00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:07,240
you will become much more informed even

634
00:26:11,250 --> 00:26:09,910
when faced with issues that are not on

635
00:26:14,340 --> 00:26:11,260
which you are not well informed there's

636
00:26:16,260 --> 00:26:14,350
still things you can do you can make

637
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:16,270
some progress by emphasizing the process

638
00:26:21,810 --> 00:26:18,570
rather than the actual subject matter

639
00:26:23,550 --> 00:26:21,820
the conclusion people reach is not that

640
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:23,560
important what's important is that they

641
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:26,650
apply a sound thought process but they

642
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:28,450
engage in critical thinking and

643
00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:31,570
skepticism skepticism so by emphasizing

644
00:26:35,670 --> 00:26:33,130
the process you can actually start

645
00:26:37,950 --> 00:26:35,680
talking about things that you don't know

646
00:26:39,420 --> 00:26:37,960
much about but sound fishy so when a

647
00:26:40,830 --> 00:26:39,430
believer gets upset with you and

648
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:40,840
declares that science doesn't know

649
00:26:44,500 --> 00:26:42,770
everything which is of course true

650
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:44,510
and that his friend was healed from

651
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:46,970
cancer using crystals you can ask

652
00:26:51,490 --> 00:26:48,610
questions about what makes him think

653
00:26:54,100 --> 00:26:51,500
that that's actually need what happened

654
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:54,110
and what evidence there is to prove that

655
00:26:58,360 --> 00:26:56,330
that's the case and you can explain the

656
00:26:59,830 --> 00:26:58,370
processes that we follow in order to in

657
00:27:01,300 --> 00:26:59,840
order to find out whether something is

658
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:01,310
true or not so you might not know

659
00:27:04,930 --> 00:27:03,290
anything about crystals but you know

660
00:27:09,130 --> 00:27:04,940
enough about their scientific process to

661
00:27:11,670 --> 00:27:09,140
make a difference and be humble remember

662
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:11,680
and admit that you don't know everything

663
00:27:15,580 --> 00:27:13,730
though you should feel free to point out

664
00:27:18,970 --> 00:27:15,590
with your opponent or the other side but

665
00:27:21,070 --> 00:27:18,980
they don't know everything either but

666
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:21,080
that allows you acknowledging that

667
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:23,570
allows you to come to some sort of

668
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:26,090
agreement there are very few people with

669
00:27:30,250 --> 00:27:27,770
whom you can't come to agree to

670
00:27:32,050 --> 00:27:30,260
agreement on anything so find some

671
00:27:33,970 --> 00:27:32,060
common ground and start from there for

672
00:27:35,980 --> 00:27:33,980
example show your opponent or you the

673
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:35,990
other side but there is already a

674
00:27:40,690 --> 00:27:38,210
skeptic about something I don't know TV

675
00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:40,700
infomercials find something make them

676
00:27:45,310 --> 00:27:43,130
see the wood skeptic in positive light

677
00:27:48,970 --> 00:27:45,320
about themselves and then suddenly

678
00:27:50,500 --> 00:27:48,980
you've got something to talk about an

679
00:27:52,180 --> 00:27:50,510
important point regarding being humble

680
00:27:55,210 --> 00:27:52,190
is that there is no need to act humble

681
00:27:57,610 --> 00:27:55,220
when you're presenting facts so when

682
00:27:59,710 --> 00:27:57,620
falsehoods are being made about vaccines

683
00:28:02,560 --> 00:27:59,720
for example such as linking them to

684
00:28:04,930 --> 00:28:02,570
autism it is quite okay to say you were

685
00:28:07,210 --> 00:28:04,940
wrong because was a large

686
00:28:09,340 --> 00:28:07,220
epidemiological study in California then

687
00:28:11,650 --> 00:28:09,350
market Sweden that showed conclusively

688
00:28:13,620 --> 00:28:11,660
that works vaccines are not linked to

689
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:13,630
autism

690
00:28:18,390 --> 00:28:16,000
I've mentioned the principles these

691
00:28:19,860 --> 00:28:18,400
three principles in in the context of

692
00:28:22,140 --> 00:28:19,870
spreading skepticism within your social

693
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:22,150
circles or people around you but there's

694
00:28:26,430 --> 00:28:24,640
more you can do you can using the same

695
00:28:27,990 --> 00:28:26,440
principles of course you can try to

696
00:28:30,710 --> 00:28:28,000
actively meet people who are unlikely to

697
00:28:33,690 --> 00:28:30,720
be skeptical and talk to them go to

698
00:28:36,570 --> 00:28:33,700
mind/body Wallace my buddy spirits are

699
00:28:39,090 --> 00:28:36,580
the conference conference in city attend

700
00:28:41,730 --> 00:28:39,100
UFO convent conventions in public end of

701
00:28:44,250 --> 00:28:41,740
psychic fairs and talk to people now

702
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:44,260
remember the vendors and merchants the

703
00:28:48,900 --> 00:28:45,730
people who are getting paid there and

704
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:48,910
are peddled peddling their stuff that

705
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:51,490
psychic readings or whatever they're

706
00:28:58,710 --> 00:28:54,610
fair game but be extra polite with our

707
00:29:01,110 --> 00:28:58,720
victims subscribe to online groups and

708
00:29:03,150 --> 00:29:01,120
forums that host believers now with

709
00:29:07,050 --> 00:29:03,160
regards to that it's probably best if

710
00:29:08,580 --> 00:29:07,060
you know more about the subject matter

711
00:29:10,140 --> 00:29:08,590
matter than the people who would

712
00:29:12,810 --> 00:29:10,150
generally attend those places so for

713
00:29:14,850 --> 00:29:12,820
example if you are going to attend a

714
00:29:19,140 --> 00:29:14,860
forum that's attended by

715
00:29:21,860 --> 00:29:19,150
anti-vaccination people peter will

716
00:29:25,290 --> 00:29:21,870
correct me anti-vaccination liars then

717
00:29:27,420 --> 00:29:25,300
then you want to know about vaccines and

718
00:29:30,060 --> 00:29:27,430
you want to know about how they promote

719
00:29:32,550 --> 00:29:30,070
the agenda of against vaccines you want

720
00:29:33,990 --> 00:29:32,560
to know about how things are done so

721
00:29:36,030 --> 00:29:34,000
that you are well informed and you are

722
00:29:37,410 --> 00:29:36,040
able to discuss things with them at a

723
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:37,420
better level and higher level than

724
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:39,610
they're able to discuss things the

725
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:41,170
chances are by the way that you'll be

726
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:42,850
kicked out of every one of those forums

727
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:45,130
with time if you show your skeptical

728
00:29:49,110 --> 00:29:47,650
attitude in work as always have been

729
00:29:55,029 --> 00:29:49,120
prominent in scratch that night in it

730
00:30:00,889 --> 00:29:58,129
hopefully you'll be less you'll be less

731
00:30:02,690 --> 00:30:00,899
famous than Peter and acquire let quiet

732
00:30:06,169 --> 00:30:02,700
take you more time to acquire enemies

733
00:30:07,969 --> 00:30:06,179
than peter has been taking so um so you

734
00:30:10,820 --> 00:30:07,979
definitely joined those join those

735
00:30:12,109 --> 00:30:10,830
forums publish publish what you have

736
00:30:13,669 --> 00:30:12,119
learned for example if you have an

737
00:30:15,889 --> 00:30:13,679
interesting story or an interesting

738
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:15,899
angle on the story then write an article

739
00:30:19,879 --> 00:30:18,330
or blog entry about it if you read a

740
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:19,889
great book for example that you think

741
00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:21,090
will be of interest to other skeptics

742
00:30:25,999 --> 00:30:24,720
write a book review send if you write

743
00:30:27,589 --> 00:30:26,009
something send it to one of the

744
00:30:29,529 --> 00:30:27,599
magazine's I've mentioned earlier and if

745
00:30:31,789 --> 00:30:29,539
it's well-written it might be published

746
00:30:35,089 --> 00:30:31,799
if you like to talk as some of us

747
00:30:37,070 --> 00:30:35,099
definitely do try to see if you can talk

748
00:30:41,389 --> 00:30:37,080
at a meeting or join or even perhaps

749
00:30:43,639 --> 00:30:41,399
start your own podcast these are just a

750
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:43,649
few things and there's a lot more that

751
00:30:48,019 --> 00:30:45,570
everybody can do but i think the

752
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:48,029
principles of being polite informed in

753
00:30:52,580 --> 00:30:50,970
humble always hold true and now that

754
00:30:54,589 --> 00:30:52,590
i've mentioned the things you can do to

755
00:30:55,909 --> 00:30:54,599
be very active i want to mention

756
00:30:58,430 --> 00:30:55,919
something that to me is actually very

757
00:31:02,570 --> 00:30:58,440
important and that is but you don't

758
00:31:05,570 --> 00:31:02,580
actually have to be active be active if

759
00:31:07,399 --> 00:31:05,580
you passionate about it if you get

760
00:31:09,889 --> 00:31:07,409
satisfaction from it then that's great

761
00:31:11,389 --> 00:31:09,899
but if all you want to do is go to the

762
00:31:13,789 --> 00:31:11,399
pub with other skeptics or join

763
00:31:16,219 --> 00:31:13,799
skeptical forums and discuss things with

764
00:31:17,599 --> 00:31:16,229
other skeptics at that level now that's

765
00:31:19,249 --> 00:31:17,609
fine too there's nothing in the

766
00:31:21,739 --> 00:31:19,259
definition of the word skeptic I have

767
00:31:23,539 --> 00:31:21,749
looked it up nothing about evangelizing

768
00:31:26,269 --> 00:31:23,549
nothing about telling other people about

769
00:31:28,190 --> 00:31:26,279
skepticism okay the most important thing

770
00:31:32,119 --> 00:31:28,200
the only really important thing about

771
00:31:34,529 --> 00:31:32,129
being a skeptic is being skeptical

772
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:34,539
so I'd like to end up with a quote which

773
00:31:39,419 --> 00:31:36,370
to me sums up with skepticism is all

774
00:31:41,610 --> 00:31:39,429
about what's that it's very cool it

775
00:31:43,980 --> 00:31:41,620
comes from physicist Richard Feynman and

776
00:31:45,389 --> 00:31:43,990
i want to emphasize to all listeners of

777
00:31:49,799 --> 00:31:45,399
the skeptics guide to the universe

778
00:31:52,019 --> 00:31:49,809
podcast but I wrote this talk before Jay

779
00:31:57,029 --> 00:31:52,029
stole my thunder by making this his

780
00:31:58,740 --> 00:31:57,039
quote of the week this week here it is

781
00:32:01,529 --> 00:31:58,750
anyway I'll really anyway because it's

782
00:32:04,110 --> 00:32:01,539
fantastic I can live with doubt and

783
00:32:05,549 --> 00:32:04,120
uncertainty in not knowing I think it's

784
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:05,559
much more interesting to live not

785
00:32:09,930 --> 00:32:07,210
knowing than to have answers that might

786
00:32:11,549 --> 00:32:09,940
be wrong I have approximate answers and

787
00:32:13,529 --> 00:32:11,559
possible beliefs in different degrees of

788
00:32:15,389 --> 00:32:13,539
certainty about different things but I'm

789
00:32:17,039 --> 00:32:15,399
not absolutely sure of anything and

790
00:32:20,009 --> 00:32:17,049
there many things I don't know anything

791
00:32:23,340 --> 00:32:20,019
about such as whether it means anything

792
00:32:24,810 --> 00:32:23,350
to ask why are we here but I don't have

793
00:32:26,879 --> 00:32:24,820
to know an answer I don't feel

794
00:32:28,379 --> 00:32:26,889
frightened by not knowing things by

795
00:32:31,230 --> 00:32:28,389
being lost in the mysterious universe

796
00:32:33,690 --> 00:32:31,240
without having any purpose which is the

797
00:32:38,340 --> 00:32:33,700
way it really is as far as I can tell it

798
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:38,350
doesn't frighten me so if you can leave

799
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:40,690
with uncertainty in doubt and you are

800
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:42,490
aware of how little you actually know

801
00:32:47,580 --> 00:32:45,610
and you strive to know more then you are

802
00:33:01,190 --> 00:32:47,590
already a good skeptic so

803
00:33:08,009 --> 00:33:04,499
you're listening to the skeptic zone I'm

804
00:33:10,289 --> 00:33:08,019
Brian Dunning from sceptile calm when

805
00:33:13,229 --> 00:33:10,299
I'm not tuned into the skeptic zone I'm

806
00:33:15,060 --> 00:33:13,239
recording thus kept I'd podcast doing

807
00:33:16,879 --> 00:33:15,070
what I can to further knowledge by

808
00:33:19,379 --> 00:33:16,889
blasting away the widespread

809
00:33:22,229 --> 00:33:19,389
pseudo-sciences that infect popular

810
00:33:24,299 --> 00:33:22,239
culture I've also compiled a 40-minute

811
00:33:27,539 --> 00:33:24,309
educational video on critical thinking

812
00:33:31,259 --> 00:33:27,549
called here be dragons at here be

813
00:33:34,259 --> 00:33:31,269
dragons movie.com I hope you check those

814
00:33:41,430 --> 00:33:34,269
out and I hope you enjoy the skeptic

815
00:33:46,859 --> 00:33:41,440
zone now it's time for dr. rachy reports

816
00:33:49,619 --> 00:33:46,869
with dr. Rachel Dunlop hello everyone

817
00:33:51,239 --> 00:33:49,629
and welcome to dr. Rachel reports and at

818
00:33:53,099 --> 00:33:51,249
this time of the year there is much talk

819
00:33:56,279 --> 00:33:53,109
about getting healthy losing weight and

820
00:33:58,680 --> 00:33:56,289
detoxing but what exactly is detox and

821
00:34:00,899 --> 00:33:58,690
is it really effective or today on the

822
00:34:02,639 --> 00:34:00,909
show I examine the world of detox and

823
00:34:04,529 --> 00:34:02,649
look at the science or lack thereof

824
00:34:06,899 --> 00:34:04,539
behind this multi-billion dollar

825
00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:06,909
industry so let's begin with what

826
00:34:12,750 --> 00:34:10,089
exactly is detox well detox is defined

827
00:34:15,089 --> 00:34:12,760
by the oxford english dictionary as the

828
00:34:17,879 --> 00:34:15,099
removal of toxic substances or qualities

829
00:34:19,950 --> 00:34:17,889
now in conventional medicine detox has

830
00:34:22,069 --> 00:34:19,960
an established place where it refers to

831
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:22,079
weaning addicts off drugs or alcohol or

832
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:24,010
eliminating poisons that have been

833
00:34:28,769 --> 00:34:26,770
ingested or injected but as we've come

834
00:34:30,990 --> 00:34:28,779
to expect in alternative medicine the

835
00:34:33,750 --> 00:34:31,000
word detox has been hijacked to include

836
00:34:36,659 --> 00:34:33,760
a grab bag of pills powders supplements

837
00:34:39,779 --> 00:34:36,669
kids diets magic waters and drinks

838
00:34:42,539 --> 00:34:39,789
colonic irrigation chelation therapy and

839
00:34:44,490 --> 00:34:42,549
even shampoos and body brushes now the

840
00:34:46,409 --> 00:34:44,500
alternative medicine people tell us we

841
00:34:48,690 --> 00:34:46,419
need to detox because of the large

842
00:34:51,059 --> 00:34:48,700
number of toxins from things like

843
00:34:53,210 --> 00:34:51,069
cigarette smoke exhaust fumes pesticides

844
00:34:55,649 --> 00:34:53,220
caffeine alcohol and medicinal drugs

845
00:34:58,260 --> 00:34:55,659
that our bodies are exposed to in

846
00:35:00,269 --> 00:34:58,270
today's world they will also tell you

847
00:35:02,609 --> 00:35:00,279
that toxins accumulate in your body and

848
00:35:04,410 --> 00:35:02,619
this overload explains all manner of

849
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:04,420
illnesses including constipation

850
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:07,210
bloating flatulence poor digestion

851
00:35:10,810 --> 00:35:07,970
heartburn

852
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:10,820
diarrhea lack of energy fatigue etc etc

853
00:35:16,089 --> 00:35:14,090
in fact listeners pick an illness and

854
00:35:18,220 --> 00:35:16,099
most likely toxins have something to do

855
00:35:20,980 --> 00:35:18,230
with it so claims on detox products

856
00:35:23,230 --> 00:35:20,990
includes such things as stimulate your

857
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:23,240
body's natural detoxifying functions

858
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:25,010
improve the functioning of your

859
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:27,410
digestive system works like an

860
00:35:31,839 --> 00:35:30,050
intestinal broom flush away potentially

861
00:35:34,830 --> 00:35:31,849
harmful toxins from your system and

862
00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:34,840
generally give your body a spring clean

863
00:35:40,180 --> 00:35:37,310
well this is all very well but does

864
00:35:42,070 --> 00:35:40,190
detox actually work well as I mentioned

865
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:42,080
earlier conventional detox can be

866
00:35:46,030 --> 00:35:44,090
life-saving however in alternative

867
00:35:48,220 --> 00:35:46,040
medicine and this probably won't

868
00:35:52,450 --> 00:35:48,230
surprise your listeners detox is nothing

869
00:35:54,210 --> 00:35:52,460
but a scam in fact in 2005 choice which

870
00:35:57,310 --> 00:35:54,220
is australia's consumer watchdog

871
00:36:00,490 --> 00:35:57,320
conducted a study of seven detox kits

872
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:00,500
and concluded that detox supplements

873
00:36:05,740 --> 00:36:02,810
provide little or no no and benefit over

874
00:36:08,109 --> 00:36:05,750
a healthy diet a week or two on a detox

875
00:36:10,690 --> 00:36:08,119
program won't observe you from a year of

876
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:10,700
unhealthy eating smoking or drinking too

877
00:36:15,940 --> 00:36:13,490
much alcohol we suggest you save your

878
00:36:18,430 --> 00:36:15,950
money and for full details of this

879
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:18,440
report please visit my blog and i have a

880
00:36:25,570 --> 00:36:21,650
link there to the choice website now

881
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:25,580
more recently in 2009 a report from the

882
00:36:30,130 --> 00:36:28,010
voice of the young science Network which

883
00:36:34,420 --> 00:36:30,140
was published by sense about science in

884
00:36:37,630 --> 00:36:34,430
the UK reviewed 15 products from bottled

885
00:36:40,839 --> 00:36:37,640
detox water to face scrub and concluded

886
00:36:42,940 --> 00:36:40,849
that at worst some detox diets could

887
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:42,950
have dangerous consequences and at best

888
00:36:46,930 --> 00:36:45,410
they are a waste of money and in an

889
00:36:49,180 --> 00:36:46,940
interview this week with dr. ben

890
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:49,190
goldacre of the excellent bad science

891
00:36:54,250 --> 00:36:51,050
column and website on the Today

892
00:36:56,349 --> 00:36:54,260
programme on radio BBC four when asked

893
00:36:59,349 --> 00:36:56,359
about detox and whether we should detox

894
00:37:01,599 --> 00:36:59,359
he responded with an emphatic no he went

895
00:37:04,450 --> 00:37:01,609
on to explain it is a purification

896
00:37:05,950 --> 00:37:04,460
ritual it's symbolic the idea that you

897
00:37:08,410 --> 00:37:05,960
can fix things in just a month of

898
00:37:09,910 --> 00:37:08,420
healthy eating is dangerous because it

899
00:37:11,530 --> 00:37:09,920
means that people will imagine they are

900
00:37:14,310 --> 00:37:11,540
doing something quite useful for their

901
00:37:16,660 --> 00:37:14,320
lives when actually they're not and

902
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:16,670
here's what the wonderful book trick or

903
00:37:21,910 --> 00:37:18,650
treatment by Ed's odd Ernst and Simon

904
00:37:23,530 --> 00:37:21,920
Singh has to say about detox the only

905
00:37:26,890 --> 00:37:23,540
substance that is being removed from a

906
00:37:28,450 --> 00:37:26,900
patient is usually money so let us have

907
00:37:31,539 --> 00:37:28,460
a closer look at some of these detox

908
00:37:34,319 --> 00:37:31,549
products and I've chosen to to ridicule

909
00:37:38,349 --> 00:37:34,329
for the fact that they are so ridiculous

910
00:37:40,599 --> 00:37:38,359
beginning with detox foot pads now this

911
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:40,609
nonsense has been debunked so many times

912
00:37:44,829 --> 00:37:42,650
I'm surprised I even need to mention it

913
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:44,839
but the first ridiculous thing you'll

914
00:37:48,430 --> 00:37:46,970
notice about detox foot pads is that

915
00:37:50,770 --> 00:37:48,440
they are based on the concept that

916
00:37:53,230 --> 00:37:50,780
toxins can be sucked out of the soles of

917
00:37:55,809 --> 00:37:53,240
your feet now let's just think about

918
00:37:57,970 --> 00:37:55,819
this listeners the human body is

919
00:38:00,549 --> 00:37:57,980
equipped with organs whose primary role

920
00:38:02,530 --> 00:38:00,559
is to get rid of waste products you may

921
00:38:05,500 --> 00:38:02,540
have heard of them then known as the

922
00:38:09,490 --> 00:38:05,510
liver the kidney the colon intestine and

923
00:38:11,230 --> 00:38:09,500
the skin not the feet but this small

924
00:38:13,420 --> 00:38:11,240
detail doesn't seem to bother though we

925
00:38:16,870 --> 00:38:13,430
were crowd let's not let the facts get

926
00:38:19,180 --> 00:38:16,880
in the way so foot pads are like nappies

927
00:38:20,770 --> 00:38:19,190
or diapers for your feet and a little

928
00:38:22,630 --> 00:38:20,780
pouch reminiscent of a tea bag

929
00:38:25,089 --> 00:38:22,640
containing a mixture of dried

930
00:38:27,370 --> 00:38:25,099
ingredients it's secured to the soles of

931
00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:27,380
your feet usually overnight and when you

932
00:38:31,380 --> 00:38:28,730
wake up in the morning and peel off the

933
00:38:33,819 --> 00:38:31,390
pads they will appear brown and sticky

934
00:38:36,099 --> 00:38:33,829
now manufacturers will tell you the

935
00:38:37,839 --> 00:38:36,109
brown sticky stuff are the toxins which

936
00:38:39,849 --> 00:38:37,849
seeped out of your feet whilst you slept

937
00:38:41,530 --> 00:38:39,859
and if it sounds too good to be true

938
00:38:45,069 --> 00:38:41,540
that you can detox in your sleep

939
00:38:47,349 --> 00:38:45,079
listeners that's because it is now the

940
00:38:49,299 --> 00:38:47,359
explanation for this brown sticky stuff

941
00:38:51,789 --> 00:38:49,309
is that these foot pads contain a

942
00:38:55,210 --> 00:38:51,799
substance known as would SAP or tree

943
00:38:57,490 --> 00:38:55,220
vinegar as well as what's listed on the

944
00:39:00,670 --> 00:38:57,500
product as hydrolyzed carbohydrate or

945
00:39:02,620 --> 00:39:00,680
starch now would vinegar is a byproduct

946
00:39:04,930 --> 00:39:02,630
of wood combustion and it's highly

947
00:39:07,559 --> 00:39:04,940
hydroscopic which means that it attracts

948
00:39:11,109 --> 00:39:07,569
and absorbs moisture very readily and

949
00:39:12,870 --> 00:39:11,119
this makes it turn a brown color and the

950
00:39:14,890 --> 00:39:12,880
sticky feeling described by

951
00:39:17,230 --> 00:39:14,900
manufacturers is none other than the

952
00:39:19,839 --> 00:39:17,240
hydrolyzed carbohydrate also known as

953
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:19,849
sugar and we all know that when sugar

954
00:39:24,940 --> 00:39:23,450
gets wet it becomes sticky now the detox

955
00:39:27,190 --> 00:39:24,950
dazhe air from the network of young

956
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:27,200
scientists I mentioned earlier weren't

957
00:39:30,819 --> 00:39:29,210
satisfied with airy-fairy claims on

958
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:30,829
websites from people who bought their

959
00:39:34,900 --> 00:39:33,290
degrees from diploma mills so they went

960
00:39:35,350 --> 00:39:34,910
straight to the source and demanded

961
00:39:36,730 --> 00:39:35,360
answers

962
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:36,740
about why these things go black and

963
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:39,530
sticky and here's what they were told by

964
00:39:44,530 --> 00:39:41,570
the customer liaison manager from

965
00:39:48,340 --> 00:39:44,540
crystal spring detox pads sold in the UK

966
00:39:50,410 --> 00:39:48,350
and I quote yes the footpads turning

967
00:39:53,230 --> 00:39:50,420
brown is due to the ingredients getting

968
00:39:56,470 --> 00:39:53,240
wet so let's go on to our next

969
00:39:58,990 --> 00:39:56,480
preposterous form of detox colonic

970
00:40:01,180 --> 00:39:59,000
irrigation now these are also known as

971
00:40:03,370 --> 00:40:01,190
enemas colonic irrigation colon

972
00:40:05,830 --> 00:40:03,380
hydrotherapy or colonics and are

973
00:40:07,510 --> 00:40:05,840
marketed as a deep hole system cleansing

974
00:40:09,820 --> 00:40:07,520
method designed to remove toxins from

975
00:40:12,730 --> 00:40:09,830
your intestine and cleanse our bodies

976
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:12,740
elimination system now some of you may

977
00:40:15,490 --> 00:40:13,970
have heard of this treatment being

978
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:15,500
administered with coffee and coffee

979
00:40:19,630 --> 00:40:17,090
enemas have been made popular by

980
00:40:22,750 --> 00:40:19,640
celebrities or sometimes they're used

981
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:22,760
with various herbs and this treatment is

982
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:24,530
based on the popular misconception that

983
00:40:28,690 --> 00:40:26,690
toxins build up over time in our bodies

984
00:40:30,430 --> 00:40:28,700
and this treatment is supposed to be

985
00:40:33,850 --> 00:40:30,440
effective against all manner of

986
00:40:35,890 --> 00:40:33,860
illnesses once again so treatment

987
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:35,900
involves insertion of a narrow tube by

988
00:40:39,820 --> 00:40:37,970
the rectum and flushing of the bowel

989
00:40:42,070 --> 00:40:39,830
with considerable amounts of fluid and

990
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:42,080
here comes the fun part listeners the

991
00:40:46,420 --> 00:40:44,330
fluid is often flushed to a viewing tube

992
00:40:50,290 --> 00:40:46,430
so that you can monitor what comes out

993
00:40:51,940 --> 00:40:50,300
how nice now I'm sorry to tell you but

994
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:51,950
there is no scientific evidence that

995
00:40:56,290 --> 00:40:54,050
colonic irrigation has any benefit and

996
00:40:58,090 --> 00:40:56,300
if these people claim that toxins and

997
00:41:00,270 --> 00:40:58,100
parasites buildup in your colon over

998
00:41:02,980 --> 00:41:00,280
years well then we would all be dead in

999
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:02,990
fact to the contrary there have been

1000
00:41:07,780 --> 00:41:05,090
reports of colonic irrigation actually

1001
00:41:10,750 --> 00:41:07,790
causing harm by perforating the bowel or

1002
00:41:12,550 --> 00:41:10,760
depleting the body of electrolytes I for

1003
00:41:14,530 --> 00:41:12,560
one can't understand why anyone would

1004
00:41:16,570 --> 00:41:14,540
voluntarily place a tube up their bottom

1005
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:16,580
and want to examine the resulting

1006
00:41:20,830 --> 00:41:19,370
deposits it's a waste of money a hazard

1007
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:20,840
to your health and on top of everything

1008
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:26,210
else unpleasant so is detox safe if none

1009
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:27,890
of these products do anything then

1010
00:41:32,980 --> 00:41:30,170
there's no harm in detox right well not

1011
00:41:35,410 --> 00:41:32,990
necessarily many detox kits or detox

1012
00:41:37,690 --> 00:41:35,420
diets involve several facets such as

1013
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:37,700
pills drinks exfoliants and may even

1014
00:41:42,790 --> 00:41:39,770
include a booklet advising about

1015
00:41:44,410 --> 00:41:42,800
exercise and fluid intake and many of

1016
00:41:46,420 --> 00:41:44,420
them recommend increasing the amount of

1017
00:41:48,010 --> 00:41:46,430
water you consume under the false

1018
00:41:49,300 --> 00:41:48,020
pretense that this will assist your

1019
00:41:52,390 --> 00:41:49,310
level with detox and

1020
00:41:55,930 --> 00:41:52,400
sure system but this in itself can be

1021
00:41:59,080 --> 00:41:55,940
dangerous in July 2008 and English court

1022
00:42:00,760 --> 00:41:59,090
awarded a woman 800,000 pounds after she

1023
00:42:03,850 --> 00:42:00,770
suffered permanent brain damage whilst

1024
00:42:06,010 --> 00:42:03,860
on a detox diet dawn Paige began

1025
00:42:08,890 --> 00:42:06,020
vomiting uncontrollably after commencing

1026
00:42:11,530 --> 00:42:08,900
the amazing hydration diet in 2001 and

1027
00:42:13,540 --> 00:42:11,540
later suffered a seizure which damaged

1028
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:13,550
her memory speech and concentration and

1029
00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:16,090
she was diagnosed with hypernatremia

1030
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:18,250
which is a condition involving

1031
00:42:23,100 --> 00:42:20,450
dangerously low salt concentrations

1032
00:42:26,460 --> 00:42:23,110
induced by excessive water consumption

1033
00:42:28,630 --> 00:42:26,470
now hypernatremia or water intoxication

1034
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:28,640
occurs when a person drinks too much

1035
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:31,370
fluid diluting salts and electrolytes in

1036
00:42:35,890 --> 00:42:33,290
the blood and this can essentially flood

1037
00:42:37,660 --> 00:42:35,900
cells and tissues cause organs such as

1038
00:42:40,810 --> 00:42:37,670
the brain to swell up and stop them

1039
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:40,820
working properly speaking about the

1040
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:42,890
dangers of too much detox to the BBC

1041
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:45,530
recently professor Graham McGregor of

1042
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:48,410
st. George's University London said in

1043
00:42:52,450 --> 00:42:50,690
normal circumstances people should drink

1044
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:52,460
when their body tells them to that is

1045
00:42:56,830 --> 00:42:54,890
when they get thirsty anything else is

1046
00:42:58,330 --> 00:42:56,840
completely unnecessary and we'll just

1047
00:43:01,420 --> 00:42:58,340
leave you standing in the queue for the

1048
00:43:05,710 --> 00:43:01,430
toilet detox diets are a complete con in

1049
00:43:07,510 --> 00:43:05,720
that respect so should we detox well I

1050
00:43:10,150 --> 00:43:07,520
hope you can work out by now that the

1051
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:10,160
short answer is no the bottom line is

1052
00:43:14,290 --> 00:43:12,050
that no scientific studies have shown

1053
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:14,300
that a detox regimen increases the

1054
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:16,610
elimination of toxins and as the

1055
00:43:20,590 --> 00:43:18,050
wonderful book trick or treatment

1056
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:20,600
reminds us detox as an alternative

1057
00:43:25,240 --> 00:43:22,970
medicine is based on ill-conceived ideas

1058
00:43:27,970 --> 00:43:25,250
about human physiology metabolism and

1059
00:43:30,010 --> 00:43:27,980
toxicology there is no evidence that it

1060
00:43:32,980 --> 00:43:30,020
does any good and some treatments such

1061
00:43:34,450 --> 00:43:32,990
as colonic irrigation can be harmful so

1062
00:43:36,100 --> 00:43:34,460
I'm sorry to tell you listeners but if

1063
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:36,110
you've overindulged this silly season

1064
00:43:40,330 --> 00:43:38,090
the best thing you can do is eat fresh

1065
00:43:41,950 --> 00:43:40,340
fruit and veg get some sleep drink some

1066
00:43:44,350 --> 00:43:41,960
water and stay off the booze and

1067
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:44,360
just like most things in life there is

1068
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:47,090
no quick fix for detox and if you'd like

1069
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:49,010
further reading or the references for

1070
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:50,930
this dr. Rachel reports please head to

1071
00:43:55,900 --> 00:43:53,570
skeptics I'm TV and follow the links to

1072
00:43:59,540 --> 00:43:55,910
the skeptics own blog and until next

1073
00:44:08,180 --> 00:43:59,550
time this has been dr. Rachel reports

1074
00:44:12,930 --> 00:44:10,829
well it's a nice day here in Sydney and

1075
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:12,940
Rachel Dunlop and I have come to paddy's

1076
00:44:17,849 --> 00:44:15,490
market downtown Sydney near the central

1077
00:44:20,819 --> 00:44:17,859
train station a huge market selling

1078
00:44:24,180 --> 00:44:20,829
mostly what cheap Chinese imported bits

1079
00:44:27,180 --> 00:44:24,190
and pieces and clothes and the fruit yes

1080
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:27,190
hello Richard well your handbags and

1081
00:44:31,589 --> 00:44:29,290
hats and lots of jewelry towels in front

1082
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:31,599
of the shirts on this side watch but we

1083
00:44:36,990 --> 00:44:33,490
did come across the store upstairs which

1084
00:44:39,540 --> 00:44:37,000
was a vitamin store Rachel it was and

1085
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:39,550
with no bottom Angus store well I

1086
00:44:43,609 --> 00:44:41,770
thought I'd take the opportunity to have

1087
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:43,619
a look at some of their detox products

1088
00:44:48,690 --> 00:44:46,210
since as you heard earlier in the

1089
00:44:51,930 --> 00:44:48,700
podcast I talked about detox for dr.

1090
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:51,940
Rachel this week and I found a couple of

1091
00:44:57,300 --> 00:44:54,730
products that Richard I just despair

1092
00:44:59,460 --> 00:44:57,310
sometimes I thought I saw them to it

1093
00:45:01,290 --> 00:44:59,470
said on it like seven day detox 15 day

1094
00:45:02,910 --> 00:45:01,300
detox but then there were some products

1095
00:45:05,220 --> 00:45:02,920
that we didn't even know what the hell

1096
00:45:06,690 --> 00:45:05,230
they were fur and outrageous yes yes

1097
00:45:10,349 --> 00:45:06,700
there was this brilliant one called

1098
00:45:12,809 --> 00:45:10,359
false unicorn false unicorn tablets as

1099
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:12,819
opposed to a real unit yeah and they

1100
00:45:18,270 --> 00:45:16,690
were supposed to come from the ancient

1101
00:45:21,359 --> 00:45:18,280
Indians or something that used to take

1102
00:45:23,730 --> 00:45:21,369
them to assist menstruation or relieve

1103
00:45:26,010 --> 00:45:23,740
menstrual pain the forty seven dollars

1104
00:45:28,319 --> 00:45:26,020
is seven dollars that's my middle of

1105
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:28,329
cylinder oh yeah but there was something

1106
00:45:33,030 --> 00:45:30,250
other another thing I want of note that

1107
00:45:35,430 --> 00:45:33,040
got me a little bit angry was a detox

1108
00:45:37,319 --> 00:45:35,440
product that on the back it said that

1109
00:45:39,349 --> 00:45:37,329
the herbs contained in this product have

1110
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:39,359
been scientifically tested and

1111
00:45:44,309 --> 00:45:41,770
demonstrated through thousands of years

1112
00:45:45,630 --> 00:45:44,319
of use tradition yes okay they're

1113
00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:45,640
allowed to say that they're allowed to

1114
00:45:50,430 --> 00:45:48,250
say it's been demonstrated traditionally

1115
00:45:53,700 --> 00:45:50,440
or has been used traditionally but they

1116
00:45:55,740 --> 00:45:53,710
said scientifically tested and I assume

1117
00:45:57,210 --> 00:45:55,750
what they were referring to was one of

1118
00:45:59,450 --> 00:45:57,220
the main ingredient which is milk

1119
00:46:02,510 --> 00:45:59,460
thistle or

1120
00:46:04,670 --> 00:46:02,520
what's it called silly bum is actually

1121
00:46:06,890 --> 00:46:04,680
the botanic lieutenant name is to lead

1122
00:46:08,330 --> 00:46:06,900
by marianum which i think it's a great

1123
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:08,340
name for a thesaurus basically the

1124
00:46:11,270 --> 00:46:09,810
Scotch this all that in Australia you

1125
00:46:12,710 --> 00:46:11,280
see growing alongside the road the

1126
00:46:15,020 --> 00:46:12,720
purple one yeah it's the flower of

1127
00:46:17,810 --> 00:46:15,030
Scotland anyway they said that it been

1128
00:46:19,460 --> 00:46:17,820
scientifically tested and I haven't who

1129
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:19,470
have just recently read a cochrane

1130
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:21,930
review of the efficacy of this milk

1131
00:46:26,630 --> 00:46:23,930
thistle and it turns out it has no

1132
00:46:28,100 --> 00:46:26,640
efficacy well not what I wonder if when

1133
00:46:29,870 --> 00:46:28,110
they say it's been scientifically tested

1134
00:46:31,730 --> 00:46:29,880
does that mean it's being tested but

1135
00:46:34,250 --> 00:46:31,740
they don't bother reporting the results

1136
00:46:36,110 --> 00:46:34,260
which said it was a rubbish on well I

1137
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:36,120
don't care Richard that's a lie in my

1138
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:39,330
opinion yeah is misleading yeah and the

1139
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:41,130
thing that really makes me angry is that

1140
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:43,200
there's a number on the packet

1141
00:46:48,470 --> 00:46:46,530
Australian l number which means it's

1142
00:46:51,350 --> 00:46:48,480
listed with the Therapeutic Goods

1143
00:46:52,910 --> 00:46:51,360
Administration so the government has

1144
00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:52,920
actually given it an official-looking

1145
00:46:56,870 --> 00:46:54,960
number and it's approved and so it can

1146
00:46:58,940 --> 00:46:56,880
go and be sold in pharmacies we're now

1147
00:47:01,040 --> 00:46:58,950
trade you some but it's a lie that's

1148
00:47:02,180 --> 00:47:01,050
what gives me to you know you were

1149
00:47:03,980 --> 00:47:02,190
saying before you think we're in the

1150
00:47:05,570 --> 00:47:03,990
wrong business I do think we're in the

1151
00:47:08,630 --> 00:47:05,580
wrong business if you can sell a pill

1152
00:47:10,700 --> 00:47:08,640
called false unicorn before what I seven

1153
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:10,710
does well surely you're just joking

1154
00:47:15,650 --> 00:47:12,810
maybe we should sell the real unicorn

1155
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:15,660
yeah I go yeah I'm ready to turn to the

1156
00:47:21,340 --> 00:47:17,970
darkside just about I swear yeah

1157
00:47:24,230 --> 00:47:21,350
listeners listeners please help Rachel

1158
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:24,240
turn to the dark side send a encouraging

1159
00:47:30,700 --> 00:47:27,810
emails that's it i'm off to the vitamin

1160
00:47:36,530 --> 00:47:34,130
hi I'm dr. Stefan psycho from the

1161
00:47:39,109 --> 00:47:36,540
astrological cellular crystal research

1162
00:47:41,359 --> 00:47:39,119
institute did you know that a full

1163
00:47:44,030 --> 00:47:41,369
one-third of your body weight is made up

1164
00:47:47,329 --> 00:47:44,040
of toxins it sounds unbelievable but

1165
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:47,339
throughout a normal day you absorb toxic

1166
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:50,130
atoms toxic compounds and toxic

1167
00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:52,410
vibrations from a multitude of toxic

1168
00:47:59,030 --> 00:47:55,680
sources toxic food toxic air toxic water

1169
00:48:01,040 --> 00:47:59,040
and toxic prophylactics over time this

1170
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:01,050
toxicity builds up to the point that

1171
00:48:06,170 --> 00:48:03,210
every cell in your body becomes

1172
00:48:09,230 --> 00:48:06,180
overweight tired and sluggish what you

1173
00:48:11,780 --> 00:48:09,240
need is a full cleansing introducing

1174
00:48:13,849 --> 00:48:11,790
astrological cellular crystal research

1175
00:48:17,690 --> 00:48:13,859
institutes breakthrough toxicity

1176
00:48:20,990 --> 00:48:17,700
treatment 1 2 3 gut flush 1 2 3 gut

1177
00:48:23,059 --> 00:48:21,000
flush is a 3-step scientific total toxic

1178
00:48:25,579 --> 00:48:23,069
cleansing system designed to read your

1179
00:48:27,770 --> 00:48:25,589
entire being of poison and flush away

1180
00:48:30,230 --> 00:48:27,780
one-third of your body weight in one

1181
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:30,240
easy treatment step one involves

1182
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:32,730
swallowing our patented Reiki infused

1183
00:48:37,010 --> 00:48:35,490
crystal this crystal prepares every cell

1184
00:48:38,990 --> 00:48:37,020
in your body for the cleansing process

1185
00:48:41,420 --> 00:48:39,000
by aligning them all with the same

1186
00:48:44,300 --> 00:48:41,430
directional and vibrational resonance

1187
00:48:47,059 --> 00:48:44,310
step two is to drink our unique patented

1188
00:48:49,490 --> 00:48:47,069
natural healing drainer this unblocks

1189
00:48:51,950 --> 00:48:49,500
the nano pipes within your cells micro

1190
00:48:54,380 --> 00:48:51,960
plumbing then prepares and aligns each

1191
00:48:56,720 --> 00:48:54,390
toxin in an orderly queue at the

1192
00:48:59,089 --> 00:48:56,730
revolving chemical doorway of each cell

1193
00:49:02,000 --> 00:48:59,099
ready for expulsion during this process

1194
00:49:04,309 --> 00:49:02,010
you will feel a deep sense of universal

1195
00:49:06,559 --> 00:49:04,319
connectedness since crystal vibrations

1196
00:49:09,050 --> 00:49:06,569
are still present attuning your astral

1197
00:49:11,450 --> 00:49:09,060
self to your quantum self and opening up

1198
00:49:13,490 --> 00:49:11,460
all your chakras to receive the final

1199
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:13,500
stage of the one two three gut flush

1200
00:49:18,260 --> 00:49:16,050
cleansing process stage three is the

1201
00:49:20,839 --> 00:49:18,270
final toxic cleansing phase we have

1202
00:49:23,210 --> 00:49:20,849
created a miracle herbal farm remedy

1203
00:49:25,609 --> 00:49:23,220
that releases cellular sheep dogs into

1204
00:49:27,620 --> 00:49:25,619
your acupuncture meridians to round up

1205
00:49:30,140 --> 00:49:27,630
the toxins and heard them through the

1206
00:49:32,630 --> 00:49:30,150
astral plane sheepdip that resides in

1207
00:49:35,420 --> 00:49:32,640
your base chakra once treated then now

1208
00:49:37,220 --> 00:49:35,430
completely harmless toxins are herded on

1209
00:49:39,500 --> 00:49:37,230
mass from the lower chakra post

1210
00:49:41,329 --> 00:49:39,510
cleansing holding yard and straight out

1211
00:49:42,540 --> 00:49:41,339
of your back passage depending on your

1212
00:49:44,300 --> 00:49:42,550
level of pride

1213
00:49:46,620 --> 00:49:44,310
city we usually recommend using

1214
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:46,630
industrial-strength chamber and system

1215
00:49:51,870 --> 00:49:49,330
to process the toxic deluge there has

1216
00:49:53,730 --> 00:49:51,880
never been an easier and more scientific

1217
00:49:55,950 --> 00:49:53,740
way to lose one third of your body

1218
00:49:58,980 --> 00:49:55,960
weight and cleanse your liver spleen

1219
00:50:01,800 --> 00:49:58,990
gallbladder and hypothalamus in 15

1220
00:50:04,290 --> 00:50:01,810
minutes session than 123 gut flush

1221
00:50:06,090 --> 00:50:04,300
please note 123 gut flush is an

1222
00:50:08,220 --> 00:50:06,100
extremely thorough cleansing for

1223
00:50:10,980 --> 00:50:08,230
complete safety please consult your

1224
00:50:15,799 --> 00:50:10,990
chiropractor iridology and family ear

1225
00:50:20,430 --> 00:50:18,660
hello my name is my koala an and welcome

1226
00:50:22,349 --> 00:50:20,440
to the roundup where I share news and

1227
00:50:24,510 --> 00:50:22,359
views it'll interest skeptics feminist

1228
00:50:26,190 --> 00:50:24,520
secularists and followers of the flying

1229
00:50:28,500 --> 00:50:26,200
spaghetti monster it's great to be back

1230
00:50:30,630 --> 00:50:28,510
after a short hiatus I hope you had a

1231
00:50:32,579 --> 00:50:30,640
lot of ham turkey and pork and indulged

1232
00:50:34,740 --> 00:50:32,589
in some beer wine and spirits over the

1233
00:50:36,900 --> 00:50:34,750
holiday season as you probably know a

1234
00:50:38,730 --> 00:50:36,910
very important an iconic individual was

1235
00:50:40,740 --> 00:50:38,740
born on the twenty-fifth of December and

1236
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:40,750
it's important to pay annual hommage to

1237
00:50:48,539 --> 00:50:46,450
him is looking at you kid yes I am

1238
00:50:51,390 --> 00:50:48,549
speaking of none other than Humphrey

1239
00:50:54,750 --> 00:50:51,400
Bogart let's start off by doing a quick

1240
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:54,760
review of 2008 firstly the years started

1241
00:50:58,980 --> 00:50:56,410
off with this ominous and our infamous

1242
00:51:01,890 --> 00:50:58,990
YouTube video hello leaders of

1243
00:51:04,470 --> 00:51:01,900
Scientology we are anonymous over the

1244
00:51:06,630 --> 00:51:04,480
years we have been watching you your

1245
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:06,640
campaigns of misinformation your

1246
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:08,650
suppression of dissent your litigious

1247
00:51:12,779 --> 00:51:10,930
nature all of these things have caught a

1248
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:12,789
ride with the leakage of your latest

1249
00:51:17,099 --> 00:51:14,770
propaganda video into mainstream

1250
00:51:18,900 --> 00:51:17,109
circulation the extent of your malign

1251
00:51:20,549 --> 00:51:18,910
influence over those who have come to

1252
00:51:23,190 --> 00:51:20,559
trust you as leaders has been made clear

1253
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:23,200
to us Anonymous has therefore decided

1254
00:51:29,039 --> 00:51:24,970
that your organization should be

1255
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:29,049
destroyed another video called call to

1256
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:32,130
action appeared on YouTube on january 28

1257
00:51:38,010 --> 00:51:35,410
2008 asking for individuals to protest

1258
00:51:41,549 --> 00:51:38,020
globally outside Church of Scientology

1259
00:51:43,319 --> 00:51:41,559
centers on februari 10 2008 the internet

1260
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:43,329
based group known as anonymous quickly

1261
00:51:47,370 --> 00:51:45,010
gained massive media attention for

1262
00:51:49,710 --> 00:51:47,380
protesting against the illegal actions

1263
00:51:51,720 --> 00:51:49,720
fraudulent activities and human rights

1264
00:51:55,140 --> 00:51:51,730
violations perpetuated by the Church of

1265
00:51:57,539 --> 00:51:55,150
Scientology in 2008 the controversial

1266
00:51:59,789 --> 00:51:57,549
independent documentary film expelled no

1267
00:52:01,680 --> 00:51:59,799
intelligence allowed was released the

1268
00:52:03,539 --> 00:52:01,690
film promoted intelligent design and

1269
00:52:05,579 --> 00:52:03,549
alleged that scientific theory leads to

1270
00:52:09,210 --> 00:52:05,589
fascism the Nazi Holocaust communism

1271
00:52:10,740 --> 00:52:09,220
abortion and evil eugenics I won't spend

1272
00:52:13,109 --> 00:52:10,750
time refuting the claims of this

1273
00:52:15,839 --> 00:52:13,119
ludicrous propaganda film but suggest

1274
00:52:17,430 --> 00:52:15,849
people go to expelled exposed calm run

1275
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:17,440
by the National Center for Science

1276
00:52:22,079 --> 00:52:20,170
Education for more information in July

1277
00:52:24,569 --> 00:52:22,089
Sydney was subjected to World Youth Day

1278
00:52:26,250 --> 00:52:24,579
a catholic youth festival the sydney

1279
00:52:27,810 --> 00:52:26,260
atheists with various other secular

1280
00:52:29,730 --> 00:52:27,820
groups peacefully protest

1281
00:52:32,010 --> 00:52:29,740
against the church's stances on

1282
00:52:35,010 --> 00:52:32,020
homosexual marriage contraception and

1283
00:52:36,660 --> 00:52:35,020
abortion with a great deal of success in

1284
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:36,670
August the bald and charming bad

1285
00:52:39,570 --> 00:52:38,290
astronomer Phil Plait became the

1286
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:39,580
president of the James Randi Educational

1287
00:52:45,810 --> 00:52:43,330
Foundation the catchphrase yes weekend

1288
00:52:47,820 --> 00:52:45,820
became well known to all in November

1289
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:47,830
when Barack Obama became president elect

1290
00:52:57,330 --> 00:52:55,690
of the United States of America you

1291
00:52:59,010 --> 00:52:57,340
might recall in my last segment that I

1292
00:53:01,980 --> 00:52:59,020
mentioned the trial of cult leader Wayne

1293
00:53:03,570 --> 00:53:01,990
bent in the USA he was sentenced to 18

1294
00:53:05,150 --> 00:53:03,580
years in prison for molesting one of

1295
00:53:06,930 --> 00:53:05,160
these young female followers

1296
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:06,940
unfortunately eight years of Ben's

1297
00:53:10,950 --> 00:53:08,890
sentence was suspended making the

1298
00:53:12,780 --> 00:53:10,960
effective sentence ten years unless the

1299
00:53:14,700 --> 00:53:12,790
suspension is revoked their

1300
00:53:17,130 --> 00:53:14,710
self-proclaimed Messiah melodramatically

1301
00:53:19,110 --> 00:53:17,140
said in an online post that the courts

1302
00:53:20,910 --> 00:53:19,120
have again crucified the Son of God I

1303
00:53:24,180 --> 00:53:20,920
think the judge summed up the case

1304
00:53:26,250 --> 00:53:24,190
nicely this case Lilly was not about

1305
00:53:29,730 --> 00:53:26,260
religion it never has been about

1306
00:53:37,380 --> 00:53:29,740
religion the case has to deal with did

1307
00:53:39,380 --> 00:53:37,390
you Wayne been commit a crime my next

1308
00:53:41,700 --> 00:53:39,390
story comes from Anaheim California

1309
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:41,710
disgraceful little slimeball Raul

1310
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:43,930
Hernandez who was the pastor of the

1311
00:53:48,690 --> 00:53:46,330
faith in action church was sentenced by

1312
00:53:50,460 --> 00:53:48,700
a judge to 90 years in prison after he

1313
00:53:53,150 --> 00:53:50,470
admitted molesting four girls and one

1314
00:53:56,010 --> 00:53:53,160
boy over a ten-year span beginning in

1315
00:53:58,260 --> 00:53:56,020
1996 prosecutors said they have a

1316
00:54:00,330 --> 00:53:58,270
videotape showing Hernandez having sex

1317
00:54:02,340 --> 00:54:00,340
in his church's office with one of his

1318
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:02,350
victims at one point in the video

1319
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:04,810
Hernandez answers a telephone by saying

1320
00:54:08,970 --> 00:54:06,970
god bless you in Spanish the video

1321
00:54:11,700 --> 00:54:08,980
closes with a shot of him at the pulpit

1322
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:11,710
delivering a sermon on blasphemy he

1323
00:54:16,050 --> 00:54:13,570
pleaded guilty to multiple counts of

1324
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:16,060
lewd acts upon children other sexual

1325
00:54:20,460 --> 00:54:18,130
acts in distributing pornography to a

1326
00:54:22,500 --> 00:54:20,470
minor he also admitted to failing to

1327
00:54:24,540 --> 00:54:22,510
appear in court after he was released on

1328
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:24,550
bail when he was first arrested in

1329
00:54:29,340 --> 00:54:27,610
February 2006 prosecutors said at the

1330
00:54:31,260 --> 00:54:29,350
time they believed Hernandez was trying

1331
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:31,270
to collect money so he could flee to

1332
00:54:36,300 --> 00:54:34,090
Mexico and avoid prosecution after the

1333
00:54:38,250 --> 00:54:36,310
sentencing the judge said quote it was

1334
00:54:40,050 --> 00:54:38,260
the epitome of hypocrisy for him to be

1335
00:54:40,849 --> 00:54:40,060
crying and clutching his Bible in court

1336
00:54:42,620 --> 00:54:40,859
today

1337
00:54:44,599 --> 00:54:42,630
he wasn't crying and clutching his Bible

1338
00:54:46,579 --> 00:54:44,609
when he was violating his position of

1339
00:54:49,539 --> 00:54:46,589
trust as a pastor and molesting his

1340
00:54:52,489 --> 00:54:49,549
victims end quote this man of the cloth

1341
00:54:58,329 --> 00:54:52,499
violated his followers trust one wonders

1342
00:55:09,079 --> 00:55:01,670
join us now for drinking skeptically in

1343
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:09,089
the think tank and welcome again to the

1344
00:55:12,829 --> 00:55:11,249
think tank and i'd like to welcome right

1345
00:55:14,420 --> 00:55:12,839
off the top our special guest for this

1346
00:55:16,249 --> 00:55:14,430
think tank yes you have missed him in

1347
00:55:20,479 --> 00:55:16,259
the last episode but here he is Dave the

1348
00:55:21,950 --> 00:55:20,489
happy singer hello and Tiffany day hello

1349
00:55:23,839 --> 00:55:21,960
Tiffany hi Richard you're looking very

1350
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:23,849
10 today did you go to the beach maybe

1351
00:55:29,509 --> 00:55:27,450
was it could you beach today very nice n

1352
00:55:31,190 --> 00:55:29,519
dr. angel Dunlop hello Mitchell hello

1353
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:31,200
everyone we were at could you as

1354
00:55:37,940 --> 00:55:33,690
well this morning to ya I missed you by

1355
00:55:39,769 --> 00:55:37,950
that five hours just missed us and if

1356
00:55:41,420 --> 00:55:39,779
you interested to know what coogee beach

1357
00:55:44,180 --> 00:55:41,430
sounds like listen as you can go to

1358
00:55:47,150 --> 00:55:44,190
skeptics own TV and down the left you

1359
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:47,160
can download a little mp3 of the sounds

1360
00:55:50,690 --> 00:55:49,170
of Coogee Beach Australia now that's a

1361
00:55:51,690 --> 00:55:50,700
bit mean isn't it Richard a lot of our

1362
00:55:53,790 --> 00:55:51,700
friends

1363
00:55:58,770 --> 00:55:53,800
the northern hemisphere are freezing at

1364
00:56:00,150 --> 00:55:58,780
the moment well so fair enough if you if

1365
00:56:02,700 --> 00:56:00,160
you're freezing and you feel like you're

1366
00:56:04,349 --> 00:56:02,710
missing summer go to skeptics on TV and

1367
00:56:07,260 --> 00:56:04,359
listen to the sound of the Australian

1368
00:56:09,750 --> 00:56:07,270
ocean and raining abusive emails yes to

1369
00:56:12,810 --> 00:56:09,760
region hats get sick signed on TV

1370
00:56:15,030 --> 00:56:12,820
they're all sledging and being and

1371
00:56:18,300 --> 00:56:15,040
having a wonderful time snowball fight

1372
00:56:20,130 --> 00:56:18,310
I'm so jealous actually they look so not

1373
00:56:23,780 --> 00:56:20,140
they're all complaining on Twitter that

1374
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:23,790
it's minus-20 and too cold to God's

1375
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:26,890
populous weapon he's from England

1376
00:56:30,540 --> 00:56:28,930
listens don't listen to hear now what a

1377
00:56:34,050 --> 00:56:30,550
week it's been are a couple of weeks has

1378
00:56:36,450 --> 00:56:34,060
been in skeptical news I think we should

1379
00:56:40,770 --> 00:56:36,460
kick off straight away with the Atheist

1380
00:56:42,599 --> 00:56:40,780
bus Rachel yes everyone probably knows

1381
00:56:45,270 --> 00:56:42,609
about this campaign it was the

1382
00:56:48,599 --> 00:56:45,280
brainchild of area and shereen who is an

1383
00:56:51,060 --> 00:56:48,609
English comedian and as you probably

1384
00:56:52,950 --> 00:56:51,070
know there are 800 buttons in England

1385
00:56:55,540 --> 00:56:52,960
Scotland and Wales which have been

1386
00:56:58,770 --> 00:56:55,550
plastered with ads say

1387
00:57:01,330 --> 00:56:58,780
there's probably no God just enjoy life

1388
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:01,340
no wonder it's not worrying and enjoy a

1389
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:05,570
lot yeah yeah and it's a really it's

1390
00:57:09,580 --> 00:57:07,130
actually been very very successful and

1391
00:57:11,530 --> 00:57:09,590
it's quite a pleasant it is it's not

1392
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:11,540
confronting it's not positive accuse

1393
00:57:16,870 --> 00:57:14,810
happy yeah it is but of course them

1394
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:16,880
there had to be some naysayers who've

1395
00:57:21,370 --> 00:57:18,770
complained about it haven't made because

1396
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:21,380
they have no that can only one guest who

1397
00:57:25,630 --> 00:57:23,330
might have complained about the campaign

1398
00:57:29,290 --> 00:57:25,640
Krishna's the Hari Krishna's maybe I

1399
00:57:30,940 --> 00:57:29,300
know it was the Jews Jews know what is

1400
00:57:32,470 --> 00:57:30,950
then have a problem with the pasta /

1401
00:57:35,050 --> 00:57:32,480
yeah they're really cranky the Buddhist

1402
00:57:37,450 --> 00:57:35,060
night must have been the Muslims you

1403
00:57:40,450 --> 00:57:37,460
don't want to offend the Muslims now it

1404
00:57:43,540 --> 00:57:40,460
wasn't them actually Rachel we can't

1405
00:57:46,930 --> 00:57:43,550
wait any longer ender's energy flows who

1406
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:46,940
was close haha who was it but no it was

1407
00:57:53,110 --> 00:57:50,930
the Christian voice not only UK have

1408
00:57:57,070 --> 00:57:53,120
complains about the Christian boy

1409
00:57:58,570 --> 00:57:57,080
Christians don't complain well this must

1410
00:58:02,530 --> 00:57:58,580
be an anomaly then because this

1411
00:58:04,510 --> 00:58:02,540
particular Christian voice organization

1412
00:58:07,890 --> 00:58:04,520
in fact the national director Steven

1413
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:07,900
green has spoken out and said that um

1414
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:11,450
this defies the laws of the Advertising

1415
00:58:15,550 --> 00:58:13,490
Standards Authority and he's saying that

1416
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:15,560
they break the rules on substantiation

1417
00:58:21,670 --> 00:58:19,130
and truthfulness me now the reason he

1418
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:21,680
says this is because the Advertising

1419
00:58:26,290 --> 00:58:23,690
Standards Authority code states that

1420
00:58:31,750 --> 00:58:26,300
marketers must hold documentary evidence

1421
00:58:33,580 --> 00:58:31,760
to prove all claims and massive national

1422
00:58:36,430 --> 00:58:33,590
director Steven green has said and I

1423
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:36,440
quote there is plenty of evidence for

1424
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:39,050
God from people's personal experience to

1425
00:58:43,540 --> 00:58:41,570
the complexity interdependent beauty and

1426
00:58:47,020 --> 00:58:43,550
design of a natural world

1427
00:58:51,500 --> 00:58:47,030
I'm sold I have nothing to say to that

1428
00:58:54,490 --> 00:58:51,510
what do you mean to I do haha Dave Lewis

1429
00:58:56,750 --> 00:58:54,500
let us hear your wisdom thing with love

1430
00:58:58,220 --> 00:58:56,760
but just like to point him to the

1431
00:59:00,410 --> 00:58:58,230
chapter and Richard Dawkins God Delusion

1432
00:59:06,230 --> 00:59:00,420
entitled why they're almost certainly is

1433
00:59:08,630 --> 00:59:06,240
not it could do with reading a book it's

1434
00:59:12,170 --> 00:59:08,640
interesting the the there's a parallel

1435
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:12,180
with carlsberg laga that had a long run

1436
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:14,010
slogan on their apps in the UK called

1437
00:59:19,670 --> 00:59:15,810
probably the best logger in the world

1438
00:59:20,510 --> 00:59:19,680
and it was kind of almost almost jive at

1439
00:59:21,950 --> 00:59:20,520
this rule that they've got to

1440
00:59:24,620 --> 00:59:21,960
substantiate it it really say it's the

1441
00:59:26,180 --> 00:59:24,630
best Locker the problem with the best

1442
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:26,190
blogging I like that it's a long-running

1443
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:27,690
slogan you know probably the best luck

1444
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:29,970
in the world is that why they said

1445
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:34,050
probably nobody oh yeah yeah they would

1446
00:59:38,390 --> 00:59:36,450
advise that would be the better wording

1447
00:59:41,570 --> 00:59:38,400
but it's also what you would expect them

1448
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:41,580
to say because that's the best statement

1449
00:59:44,510 --> 00:59:42,810
you could make yeah well you could

1450
00:59:47,540 --> 00:59:44,520
anyway you could argue almost certainly

1451
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:47,550
might even better but everybody up you

1452
00:59:51,530 --> 00:59:49,530
don't want to go around attempting to

1453
00:59:53,510 --> 00:59:51,540
prove a negative Richard Dawkins said

1454
00:59:55,460 --> 00:59:53,520
publicly that he would have preferred it

1455
00:59:58,250 --> 00:59:55,470
to say that almost certainly isn't a god

1456
00:59:59,660 --> 00:59:58,260
but the word probably I because I like

1457
01:00:01,430 --> 00:59:59,670
the ring of it I really likes yeah

1458
01:00:03,470 --> 01:00:01,440
Richard Dawkins has endorsed his

1459
01:00:05,990 --> 01:00:03,480
campaign hasn't eaten he sure did he

1460
01:00:07,970 --> 01:00:06,000
contributed think about 5,000 pounds or

1461
01:00:09,830 --> 01:00:07,980
something oh well absolutely it was all

1462
01:00:11,270 --> 01:00:09,840
done with donations wasn't it yeah yeah

1463
01:00:13,220 --> 01:00:11,280
there was a little bit of back story

1464
01:00:15,050 --> 01:00:13,230
when REM shireen first mentioned it in a

1465
01:00:16,610 --> 01:00:15,060
blog they said right let's collect some

1466
01:00:18,310 --> 01:00:16,620
money and it kind of fizzled out they

1467
01:00:21,500 --> 01:00:18,320
got a few hundred but they do it and

1468
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:21,510
somebody turned around and said well all

1469
01:00:24,890 --> 01:00:23,250
the money Richard Dawkins made off the

1470
01:00:26,180 --> 01:00:24,900
god delusion you know why didn't he just

1471
01:00:27,500 --> 01:00:26,190
chip in a little bit we could have done

1472
01:00:31,010 --> 01:00:27,510
this with they only needed a few grams

1473
01:00:32,630 --> 01:00:31,020
and Richard turned around only and the

1474
01:00:33,950 --> 01:00:32,640
comments well linked on the internet he

1475
01:00:35,450 --> 01:00:33,960
turned around on the forum he said guys

1476
01:00:37,940 --> 01:00:35,460
if I've known about this I would have

1477
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:37,950
done and that reinvigorated a couple of

1478
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:39,090
months after and he said he'd match

1479
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:40,890
every donation up to the amount they

1480
01:00:45,220 --> 01:00:42,610
needed huh

1481
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:45,230
eleven thousand names and then and that

1482
01:00:49,990 --> 01:00:48,290
getting Richard on board then just call

1483
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:50,000
CENTAC global and I mean it was getting

1484
01:00:55,540 --> 01:00:52,970
on 440 grams awesome let him know it was

1485
01:00:57,820 --> 01:00:55,550
this is UK so you know in australian or

1486
01:00:59,440 --> 01:00:57,830
american terms or but we're not talking

1487
01:01:01,210 --> 01:00:59,450
large amounts of money are we we're

1488
01:01:04,750 --> 01:01:01,220
really not know it's just it was just

1489
01:01:06,550 --> 01:01:04,760
everybody was delighted to see something

1490
01:01:08,830 --> 01:01:06,560
right as having shipping in a couple of

1491
01:01:14,050 --> 01:01:08,840
words and it made the news here in

1492
01:01:16,570 --> 01:01:14,060
Australia of course and in fact mrs. the

1493
01:01:18,730 --> 01:01:16,580
young comedian sorry her name was re am

1494
01:01:20,110 --> 01:01:18,740
serene thank you apologize Aryan but

1495
01:01:23,050 --> 01:01:20,120
beginning your name i know she listens

1496
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:23,060
to the show of course she's lovely she's

1497
01:01:27,190 --> 01:01:25,130
lovely if she was on our one of our

1498
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:27,200
morning weekend morning television shows

1499
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:28,610
with an interview which was very

1500
01:01:34,030 --> 01:01:31,130
sympathetic and very positive which was

1501
01:01:36,430 --> 01:01:34,040
really interest and I put that clip on

1502
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:36,440
youtube if listeners would care to go to

1503
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:38,570
youtube and just type in Richard

1504
01:01:43,210 --> 01:01:41,810
Saunders or are I EDSA which is my

1505
01:01:44,980 --> 01:01:43,220
youtube name you'll find that clip but

1506
01:01:47,290 --> 01:01:44,990
it's really great it's a nice interview

1507
01:01:49,030 --> 01:01:47,300
with her and they give her lots to say

1508
01:01:50,230 --> 01:01:49,040
and they're very and they actually say

1509
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:50,240
that we're sympathetic to your cause

1510
01:01:54,610 --> 01:01:52,010
which I was really surprised to hear

1511
01:01:58,420 --> 01:01:54,620
from a morning TV show normally they're

1512
01:02:00,130 --> 01:01:58,430
quiet aunty that sort of thing but how

1513
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:00,140
can you not love her she's uh she's

1514
01:02:07,610 --> 01:02:02,210
gorgeous and she's got this mellifluous

1515
01:02:12,050 --> 01:02:07,620
voice and she's just mallika I handle it

1516
01:02:16,970 --> 01:02:12,060
Louis it means golden honey time just

1517
01:02:20,210 --> 01:02:16,980
like you but there is a local to this

1518
01:02:22,670 --> 01:02:20,220
story as well in fact recently in

1519
01:02:25,100 --> 01:02:22,680
Tasmania in Australia the Atheist

1520
01:02:26,890 --> 01:02:25,110
foundation of australia also tried to

1521
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:26,900
launch a similar campaign on buses and

1522
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:29,610
their campaign was going to have slogans

1523
01:02:34,610 --> 01:02:32,010
that said such things as sleep here on

1524
01:02:38,420 --> 01:02:34,620
sunday mornings which i think is really

1525
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:38,430
good and celebrate reason and they

1526
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:40,410
wanted to get this on to republic

1527
01:02:44,150 --> 01:02:41,970
transport here it was going to cost him

1528
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:44,160
sixteen thousand dollars which isn't

1529
01:02:52,130 --> 01:02:46,010
that much like you don't really know but

1530
01:02:55,430 --> 01:02:52,140
their application was rejected placed on

1531
01:02:58,060 --> 01:02:55,440
well no reason was given in fact we no

1532
01:03:00,260 --> 01:02:58,070
reason no reason was given the

1533
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:00,270
australia's biggest outdoor advertising

1534
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:02,970
company APN outdoor managed the bus

1535
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:06,690
advertising in Tasmania and it took them

1536
01:03:11,660 --> 01:03:08,370
three weeks to come to a decision and

1537
01:03:14,450 --> 01:03:11,670
they just said no they wanted to play

1538
01:03:17,390 --> 01:03:14,460
wine well i know that in sydney with

1539
01:03:20,180 --> 01:03:17,400
advertising on transport like trains and

1540
01:03:21,850 --> 01:03:20,190
buses and taxis you're not allowed to

1541
01:03:24,050 --> 01:03:21,860
put any kind of advertising that is

1542
01:03:25,309 --> 01:03:24,060
political in nature or religious in

1543
01:03:30,289 --> 01:03:25,319
nature so that

1544
01:03:33,259 --> 01:03:30,299
unless you're Hillsong Church oh that's

1545
01:03:35,269 --> 01:03:33,269
what ASEAN have stated i'm not sure what

1546
01:03:37,459 --> 01:03:35,279
it's like don't has many other is that

1547
01:03:38,719 --> 01:03:37,469
does that like is that like everybody is

1548
01:03:42,380 --> 01:03:38,729
equal but some people are more equal

1549
01:03:45,430 --> 01:03:42,390
than others I think so the the rumor I

1550
01:03:47,599 --> 01:03:45,440
heard because Sydney atheist sue or not

1551
01:03:50,829 --> 01:03:47,609
Sydney atheists who are not affiliated

1552
01:03:54,559 --> 01:03:50,839
to the heaviest foundation of australia

1553
01:03:59,120 --> 01:03:54,569
also a campaign in the works under the

1554
01:04:00,709 --> 01:03:59,130
slogan no God no worries and you know as

1555
01:04:01,969 --> 01:04:00,719
far as I know they face a similar

1556
01:04:03,650 --> 01:04:01,979
problem I've also heard a rumor that

1557
01:04:04,849 --> 01:04:03,660
APM's answer was that we won't do

1558
01:04:07,359 --> 01:04:04,859
anything that might be controversial

1559
01:04:10,819 --> 01:04:07,369
well it's interesting actually because

1560
01:04:12,979 --> 01:04:10,829
it's reported here that there were ads

1561
01:04:15,049 --> 01:04:12,989
on Adelaide buses that were adorned with

1562
01:04:17,930 --> 01:04:15,059
religious messages such as john three

1563
01:04:19,939 --> 01:04:17,940
sixteen yes yes for some reason

1564
01:04:23,180 --> 01:04:19,949
religious adverts mature allowed to go

1565
01:04:25,430 --> 01:04:23,190
ahead but atheists adverse minute song

1566
01:04:27,739 --> 01:04:25,440
is all around sydney everywhere yeah

1567
01:04:30,319 --> 01:04:27,749
real song is our local pentecostal

1568
01:04:33,199 --> 01:04:30,329
evangelicals week other than happy

1569
01:04:36,289 --> 01:04:33,209
clappers but we do we do a lot of our

1570
01:04:37,729 --> 01:04:36,299
listeners listening to us right now in

1571
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:37,739
their little earphones in the United

1572
01:04:43,969 --> 01:04:40,170
States while well aware of road signs

1573
01:04:47,019 --> 01:04:43,979
all over the states would bark out

1574
01:04:49,849 --> 01:04:47,029
religious messages pray to Jesus and

1575
01:04:52,670 --> 01:04:49,859
hallelujah and whatever the case may be

1576
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:52,680
so it's interesting when there's a count

1577
01:04:59,090 --> 01:04:56,610
of measure taken

1578
01:05:01,520 --> 01:04:59,100
this this ties in a little bit in his

1579
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:01,530
obtained uous segue I must admit not

1580
01:05:06,020 --> 01:05:04,770
another oh yes every wait there really a

1581
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:06,030
couple of weeks ago and this is

1582
01:05:10,310 --> 01:05:07,530
something we didn't mention on the on

1583
01:05:13,190 --> 01:05:10,320
the think tank two weeks ago was there's

1584
01:05:14,810 --> 01:05:13,200
a movement by one of our politicians in

1585
01:05:16,940 --> 01:05:14,820
the state of New South Wales who is the

1586
01:05:19,790 --> 01:05:16,950
head of a religious organization to ban

1587
01:05:21,590 --> 01:05:19,800
topless bathing haiyan out topless

1588
01:05:24,530 --> 01:05:21,600
bathing on sydney beaches in New South

1589
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:24,540
Wales beaches has been just part of life

1590
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:27,570
for 20 30 years it's just accepted and

1591
01:05:34,730 --> 01:05:30,810
no one gives it stop anymore or who or

1592
01:05:37,220 --> 01:05:34,740
who just one myself some trainings all

1593
01:05:39,230 --> 01:05:37,230
right Sorry Sorry Sorry and so he's

1594
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:39,240
coming along and I I thought it was

1595
01:05:44,870 --> 01:05:42,810
hilarious because he was saying things

1596
01:05:47,090 --> 01:05:44,880
along the lines of it offends people and

1597
01:05:48,890 --> 01:05:47,100
and he was worried about for example

1598
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:48,900
Muslim people might get offended I think

1599
01:05:52,490 --> 01:05:50,730
he'd hang on hang on Fred he's not ready

1600
01:05:54,890 --> 01:05:52,500
hang on Fred these are the same people

1601
01:05:57,260 --> 01:05:54,900
who you know for sure when they die are

1602
01:05:59,060 --> 01:05:57,270
going to be tortured for eternity and

1603
01:06:02,450 --> 01:05:59,070
you're worried about if they see a naked

1604
01:06:06,130 --> 01:06:02,460
breasts but you didn't mention Richard

1605
01:06:13,580 --> 01:06:11,510
he's talked about topless be obvious he

1606
01:06:15,710 --> 01:06:13,590
also regularly turns up to the Sydney

1607
01:06:17,570 --> 01:06:15,720
gay and lesbian Mardi Gras and bridge

1608
01:06:19,220 --> 01:06:17,580
aligns himself at the beginning the

1609
01:06:21,020 --> 01:06:19,230
parade and prays for rain with his

1610
01:06:24,849 --> 01:06:21,030
followers and he believes that people

1611
01:06:27,190 --> 01:06:24,859
can be possessed by little demons

1612
01:06:29,979 --> 01:06:27,200
well I've got a bit of sympathy because

1613
01:06:33,870 --> 01:06:29,989
totally unnatural for for mammals to be

1614
01:06:36,249 --> 01:06:33,880
to be seen without fluid in it is it's

1615
01:06:38,140 --> 01:06:36,259
in previous episodes I've put out a

1616
01:06:39,370 --> 01:06:38,150
little plea for listeners to send in a

1617
01:06:40,779 --> 01:06:39,380
couple of dollars here a couple of

1618
01:06:43,059 --> 01:06:40,789
dollars there to keep the show taking

1619
01:06:45,249 --> 01:06:43,069
over which is greatly appreciated but

1620
01:06:47,979 --> 01:06:45,259
what you may not realize is because of

1621
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:47,989
the generosity of our listeners sending

1622
01:06:51,819 --> 01:06:50,210
in their donation some two dollars some

1623
01:06:54,930 --> 01:06:51,829
twenty dollars some fifty dollars even

1624
01:07:03,549 --> 01:06:54,940
I've been able to buy Tiffany day a

1625
01:07:05,620 --> 01:07:03,559
recording kit comprises awesome oh my

1626
01:07:07,930 --> 01:07:05,630
gosh thank you thank you a recorder and

1627
01:07:10,180 --> 01:07:07,940
a microphone and instead of headphones

1628
01:07:12,099 --> 01:07:10,190
their little instruction book so you'll

1629
01:07:15,220 --> 01:07:12,109
be able to record high quality shows for

1630
01:07:17,529 --> 01:07:15,230
our listeners thank you how cool of

1631
01:07:25,029 --> 01:07:17,539
skeptics on business yes look cool and

1632
01:07:26,529 --> 01:07:25,039
so sexy thang so listen as if you do

1633
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:26,539
feel so inclined to donate a little bit

1634
01:07:31,210 --> 01:07:28,730
of money towards our show it does

1635
01:07:33,279 --> 01:07:31,220
actually go into buying us real stuff

1636
01:07:35,079 --> 01:07:33,289
that we can use to produce a better show

1637
01:07:38,140 --> 01:07:35,089
for you to listen to so we're very

1638
01:07:40,930 --> 01:07:38,150
grateful and if you enjoy the show

1639
01:07:42,370 --> 01:07:40,940
please don't hesitate to throw a few

1640
01:07:44,109 --> 01:07:42,380
dollars our way thank you for an thank

1641
01:07:45,279 --> 01:07:44,119
you very much sewing listeners you know

1642
01:07:47,019 --> 01:07:45,289
what this means for which are don't you

1643
01:07:48,609 --> 01:07:47,029
huh this means that there's going to be

1644
01:07:51,999 --> 01:07:48,619
yet another drunken girl following me

1645
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:52,009
around at parties but mine are you

1646
01:08:00,789 --> 01:07:55,130
referring to me savor have you see ya

1647
01:08:02,349 --> 01:08:00,799
here we go what happened before we just

1648
01:08:04,329 --> 01:08:02,359
clear this out yes I think it's the

1649
01:08:06,910 --> 01:08:04,339
other way around you're the one that

1650
01:08:08,859 --> 01:08:06,920
follows me around run like a very

1651
01:08:11,319 --> 01:08:08,869
opportunity yeah I've been going to all

1652
01:08:13,390 --> 01:08:11,329
the cool skeptic party yeah I gave

1653
01:08:15,700 --> 01:08:13,400
Rachel a little recording can a few

1654
01:08:18,309 --> 01:08:15,710
number of weeks ago first yes and she's

1655
01:08:21,999 --> 01:08:18,319
been using it tremendously well today

1656
01:08:24,579 --> 01:08:22,009
the heavier parties when drugs things so

1657
01:08:25,990 --> 01:08:24,589
they're promising what are you doing I'm

1658
01:08:29,149 --> 01:08:26,000
sure our listeners will remember the new

1659
01:08:31,620 --> 01:08:29,159
year's eve countdown you did

1660
01:08:35,099 --> 01:08:31,630
proof that British people can count

1661
01:08:37,769 --> 01:08:35,109
backwards from ten well done day thank

1662
01:08:40,109 --> 01:08:37,779
you thank you now I've got to start I

1663
01:08:42,959 --> 01:08:40,119
wanted to talk about it involves our

1664
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:42,969
friend dr. ben goldacre from the

1665
01:08:48,149 --> 01:08:45,130
wonderful bad science called our friend

1666
01:08:49,950 --> 01:08:48,159
oh he doesn't know yet does our friend

1667
01:08:53,069 --> 01:08:49,960
all right richard has an announcement to

1668
01:08:55,859 --> 01:08:53,079
make lessons our friend dr. ben goldacre

1669
01:08:58,829 --> 01:08:55,869
is my whatever X number to the power of

1670
01:09:00,930 --> 01:08:58,839
10 cousin Wow let me just put this in

1671
01:09:03,089 --> 01:09:00,940
perspective I'll explain what happened I

1672
01:09:05,399 --> 01:09:03,099
was doing some research on been on the

1673
01:09:07,559 --> 01:09:05,409
weekend and I came across a podcast that

1674
01:09:11,819 --> 01:09:07,569
mentioned that he is related to an

1675
01:09:14,549 --> 01:09:11,829
Australian and that his history or

1676
01:09:17,189 --> 01:09:14,559
ancestry goes back to sir henry parkes

1677
01:09:19,859 --> 01:09:17,199
who was the one of the fathers of our

1678
01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:19,869
top Federation in Australia and I happen

1679
01:09:24,450 --> 01:09:21,489
to mention this to Richard and he said

1680
01:09:30,419 --> 01:09:24,460
oh that's funny because that's funny

1681
01:09:33,089 --> 01:09:30,429
also related to Sir Henry partners so

1682
01:09:34,709 --> 01:09:33,099
you have been an email about this didn't

1683
01:09:38,399 --> 01:09:34,719
you I did and he hasn't got back to you

1684
01:09:44,370 --> 01:09:38,409
yet yes he's probably so stunned he's

1685
01:09:46,079 --> 01:09:44,380
probably going Oh anyway we respect

1686
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:46,089
Ben's work highly and we know he'll is

1687
01:09:51,569 --> 01:09:48,489
mr. design however you were saying Ben

1688
01:09:53,330 --> 01:09:51,579
gave us a big win this week and many of

1689
01:09:56,850 --> 01:09:53,340
you would have heard about this it was

1690
01:09:58,480 --> 01:09:56,860
concerning a interview he had on BBC

1691
01:10:01,820 --> 01:09:58,490
Radio 4

1692
01:10:05,690 --> 01:10:01,830
just after New Year's disgusting detox

1693
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:05,700
and this was in response to the detox da

1694
01:10:10,310 --> 01:10:07,650
sea air that i mentioned in dr. Richie

1695
01:10:12,110 --> 01:10:10,320
earlier in today's zone which was a

1696
01:10:14,570 --> 01:10:12,120
study done by the network of young

1697
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:14,580
scientists and sponsored by sense about

1698
01:10:20,540 --> 01:10:17,730
science in the UK and these young

1699
01:10:22,910 --> 01:10:20,550
scientists decided to scientifically

1700
01:10:25,820 --> 01:10:22,920
analyze 15 detox products to see if

1701
01:10:27,380 --> 01:10:25,830
there was really anything to them and if

1702
01:10:29,270 --> 01:10:27,390
you listen to dr. Reggie earlier you

1703
01:10:32,150 --> 01:10:29,280
would know now bye bye now listeners

1704
01:10:36,410 --> 01:10:32,160
that there is nothing to detox it is as

1705
01:10:39,740 --> 01:10:36,420
some people say a scam it's a scam some

1706
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:39,750
people saying what's the scam which

1707
01:10:45,650 --> 01:10:42,690
means supplementary complementary and

1708
01:10:48,350 --> 01:10:45,660
alternative medicine yes it's an acronym

1709
01:10:49,970 --> 01:10:48,360
it's an acronym in any case Ben was

1710
01:10:52,070 --> 01:10:49,980
being interviewed with the managing

1711
01:10:55,070 --> 01:10:52,080
director of a detox company called

1712
01:10:56,750 --> 01:10:55,080
details in a box and he mentioned

1713
01:10:59,330 --> 01:10:56,760
something he'd seen on her website and

1714
01:11:00,710 --> 01:10:59,340
asked her about this particular line on

1715
01:11:03,010 --> 01:11:00,720
her website and she denied that they

1716
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:03,020
existed she said it wasn't her website

1717
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:05,250
it turned out that it actually was on

1718
01:11:09,770 --> 01:11:07,050
her website and so the company had to

1719
01:11:11,750 --> 01:11:09,780
issue an apology and BBC Radio 4 also

1720
01:11:13,490 --> 01:11:11,760
made an announcement saying that Ben was

1721
01:11:16,070 --> 01:11:13,500
right

1722
01:11:18,740 --> 01:11:16,080
things have actually progressed since

1723
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:18,750
then Ben did some further research about

1724
01:11:22,100 --> 01:11:20,730
this company detox in a box he went to

1725
01:11:27,310 --> 01:11:22,110
their website and he looked at some of

1726
01:11:31,550 --> 01:11:27,320
the other claims and he found out that

1727
01:11:33,410 --> 01:11:31,560
some of the things that they say that

1728
01:11:35,570 --> 01:11:33,420
some of their exciting claims include

1729
01:11:38,060 --> 01:11:35,580
things like pumpkin seeds are a natural

1730
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:38,070
depression cure lemon helps maintain

1731
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:43,170
healthy teeth and bones yeah because you

1732
01:11:50,150 --> 01:11:47,370
know lemons are famously acidic famously

1733
01:11:51,260 --> 01:11:50,160
destroys tooth enamel and one of the

1734
01:11:53,330 --> 01:11:51,270
last things I want to put on my team

1735
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:53,340
well it's funny you should say that

1736
01:11:56,780 --> 01:11:55,290
because Ben did ask the managing

1737
01:11:58,760 --> 01:11:56,790
director if she had any evidence to back

1738
01:12:00,170 --> 01:11:58,770
up this claim that lemons are good that

1739
01:12:03,410 --> 01:12:00,180
they didn't have any scientific evidence

1740
01:12:05,450 --> 01:12:03,420
surprise surprise and then she

1741
01:12:08,300 --> 01:12:05,460
remembered that um there was a study

1742
01:12:10,310 --> 01:12:08,310
involving seven people which she found

1743
01:12:12,860 --> 01:12:10,320
on a random he found on a random web

1744
01:12:14,660 --> 01:12:12,870
page that says lemons build bones and

1745
01:12:17,870 --> 01:12:14,670
team nourish the brain and nerve cells

1746
01:12:19,820 --> 01:12:17,880
yeah but this was just some kind of

1747
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:19,830
tenuous nutritionist claim it doesn't it

1748
01:12:23,870 --> 01:12:20,850
hasn't been published in a peer-reviewed

1749
01:12:25,700 --> 01:12:23,880
journal there's no you know we don't

1750
01:12:29,090 --> 01:12:25,710
know if it's actually true

1751
01:12:31,930 --> 01:12:29,100
but to make things we can guess to make

1752
01:12:34,130 --> 01:12:31,940
things even worse for detox in a box

1753
01:12:37,220 --> 01:12:34,140
been found some information on their

1754
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:37,230
website which sounded pretty sciency and

1755
01:12:43,070 --> 01:12:38,570
sounded like it could actually be

1756
01:12:45,260 --> 01:12:43,080
correct and so he says here and I quote

1757
01:12:46,729 --> 01:12:45,270
from his blog bad science net and I urge

1758
01:12:50,990 --> 01:12:46,739
listeners to visit this blog it's

1759
01:12:53,030 --> 01:12:51,000
fantastic he says it was quite sciency

1760
01:12:54,650 --> 01:12:53,040
quite plausible and quite interesting it

1761
01:12:56,479 --> 01:12:54,660
sounded like a write up of a proper

1762
01:12:59,660 --> 01:12:56,489
research paper so he wondered if it was

1763
01:13:01,370 --> 01:12:59,670
really written by detox in a box well he

1764
01:13:04,910 --> 01:13:01,380
did some further research and guess what

1765
01:13:07,479 --> 01:13:04,920
he found people weren't warning it no it

1766
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:07,489
wasn't it was actually copied verbatim

1767
01:13:12,530 --> 01:13:10,170
hundreds of words of it were copied from

1768
01:13:15,979 --> 01:13:12,540
a blog post from a proper pharmacist

1769
01:13:18,170 --> 01:13:15,989
named Jennifer Gibson and it was passed

1770
01:13:20,060 --> 01:13:18,180
off as that as belonging to detox in a

1771
01:13:22,729 --> 01:13:20,070
box except they just removed her name

1772
01:13:25,490 --> 01:13:22,739
and they copied the rest of it and said

1773
01:13:30,750 --> 01:13:28,650
yes so the other thing is that the the

1774
01:13:32,729 --> 01:13:30,760
line that cord that started all the fuss

1775
01:13:39,540 --> 01:13:32,739
that he brought up when he was on the

1776
01:13:43,980 --> 01:13:42,000
one of the claims on detox in a box of

1777
01:13:46,020 --> 01:13:43,990
website was one of the most complex

1778
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:46,030
detoxification functions is against

1779
01:13:50,790 --> 01:13:47,530
heavy metals such as lead mercury

1780
01:13:53,610 --> 01:13:50,800
cadmium had minions are a couple of

1781
01:13:56,040 --> 01:13:53,620
cadmium I can't minutes incorrectly

1782
01:13:57,720 --> 01:13:56,050
stuff coming up ad minim that seems

1783
01:14:00,060 --> 01:13:57,730
that's what you're Australian guys

1784
01:14:02,910 --> 01:14:00,070
called red peppers isn't it no I

1785
01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:02,920
capsicum captain it's like capsicum but

1786
01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:05,650
it's a toxic metal yeah anyway the

1787
01:14:09,690 --> 01:14:07,090
spelling mistake was included and he

1788
01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:09,700
found that the reason the spelling

1789
01:14:12,780 --> 01:14:11,290
mistake was included was because it was

1790
01:14:14,850 --> 01:14:12,790
copied verbatim from another website

1791
01:14:17,790 --> 01:14:14,860
called detox god calm so they copied

1792
01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:17,800
that as well that wasn't there but now

1793
01:14:21,540 --> 01:14:19,210
you'll find that the managing director

1794
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:21,550
is quite upset about what's been

1795
01:14:25,410 --> 01:14:23,170
happening as a result of this because

1796
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:25,420
she was caught out red-handed she was

1797
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:29,890
caught out and one of Ben's readers of

1798
01:14:33,570 --> 01:14:31,930
the bad science blog actually wrote to

1799
01:14:36,570 --> 01:14:33,580
the managing director to ask her about

1800
01:14:38,580 --> 01:14:36,580
this and she replied to him and I quote

1801
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:38,590
this is what she wrote back I am

1802
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:40,330
astounded that scientists and physicians

1803
01:14:44,220 --> 01:14:42,370
have started such a campaign I

1804
01:14:46,230 --> 01:14:44,230
apologized for a genuine mistake

1805
01:14:48,210 --> 01:14:46,240
although you will probably not believe

1806
01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:48,220
me should I wish you well in your

1807
01:14:52,050 --> 01:14:50,050
endeavor to damage of business which I

1808
01:14:55,120 --> 01:14:52,060
have put my heart and soul into for the

1809
01:14:57,669 --> 01:14:55,130
past four years and here's the

1810
01:14:59,530 --> 01:14:57,679
punch line yeah you have no idea how

1811
01:15:02,410 --> 01:14:59,540
this is affecting me on both a personal

1812
01:15:06,010 --> 01:15:02,420
and business level I've been here Yeah

1813
01:15:07,689 --> 01:15:06,020
right polar bear in danger so it's

1814
01:15:09,370 --> 01:15:07,699
actually funny if during the last week

1815
01:15:11,620 --> 01:15:09,380
if you kept an eye on the detox in the

1816
01:15:13,570 --> 01:15:11,630
Box website it was dumb changing every

1817
01:15:15,700 --> 01:15:13,580
day you know things would appear and

1818
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:15,710
then disappear and disclaimers would

1819
01:15:19,629 --> 01:15:17,570
come up and then go again then so

1820
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:19,639
they've seems taken off the line about

1821
01:15:24,310 --> 01:15:22,730
had minimal because they've got no

1822
01:15:26,830 --> 01:15:24,320
evidence for that I'm not sure about the

1823
01:15:28,330 --> 01:15:26,840
lemons of protecting not sure the first

1824
01:15:30,280 --> 01:15:28,340
time I saw this website linked I think

1825
01:15:32,410 --> 01:15:30,290
it was I think it was from Ben's blog

1826
01:15:35,110 --> 01:15:32,420
but it there was a disclaimer on there

1827
01:15:36,879 --> 01:15:35,120
saying oh that stuff that we said on the

1828
01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:36,889
radio that was on our website was on our

1829
01:15:45,300 --> 01:15:40,130
website sorry about hi yes that's they

1830
01:15:47,620 --> 01:15:45,310
did say that in fact the disclaimer said

1831
01:15:49,540 --> 01:15:47,630
following NASA Mia are Marty's

1832
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:49,550
appearance with dr. Ben Goldacre on this

1833
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:51,650
morning's today programme the company

1834
01:15:55,479 --> 01:15:52,610
would like to make the following

1835
01:15:57,340 --> 01:15:55,489
statement we acknowledge that dr. Ben

1836
01:15:59,020 --> 01:15:57,350
Goldacre was correct at the time of the

1837
01:16:01,720 --> 01:15:59,030
interview that the detox innerbox

1838
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:01,730
website did contain the words one of the

1839
01:16:05,979 --> 01:16:03,650
most complex detoxification functions

1840
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:05,989
blah blah blah the website has now been

1841
01:16:11,439 --> 01:16:08,210
amended to avoid any further confusion

1842
01:16:13,479 --> 01:16:11,449
or license can I translate loans

1843
01:16:16,629 --> 01:16:13,489
Australian yeah welcome to detox in the

1844
01:16:19,930 --> 01:16:16,639
box we are full of crap no that's what

1845
01:16:22,360 --> 01:16:19,940
happens afterwards actually all they

1846
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:22,370
actually do is sell meals at a package

1847
01:16:26,050 --> 01:16:23,810
for you and they claim that they're you

1848
01:16:28,419 --> 01:16:26,060
know organic and natural and so they're

1849
01:16:30,220 --> 01:16:28,429
better for you but they charge you an

1850
01:16:31,780 --> 01:16:30,230
arm and a leg for it and it's the same

1851
01:16:33,419 --> 01:16:31,790
stuff you can go down to the fruit shop

1852
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:33,429
or the local market and buy for yourself

1853
01:16:38,110 --> 01:16:36,050
but if they just said that if they said

1854
01:16:39,370 --> 01:16:38,120
we're selling you nice fresh food that

1855
01:16:41,500 --> 01:16:39,380
you probably don't have time to purchase

1856
01:16:42,790 --> 01:16:41,510
yourself then that's fine but if you're

1857
01:16:44,890 --> 01:16:42,800
going to make all this stuff up and you

1858
01:16:46,419 --> 01:16:44,900
don't have evidence to back it up then

1859
01:16:48,310 --> 01:16:46,429
you are going to get caught out and I

1860
01:16:50,919 --> 01:16:48,320
was so thrilled to hear

1861
01:16:52,689 --> 01:16:50,929
just to do that and when she turned

1862
01:16:54,609 --> 01:16:52,699
around and said oh and she laughed and

1863
01:16:56,050 --> 01:16:54,619
she scoffed about it she said I won't do

1864
01:16:57,490 --> 01:16:56,060
anything so that's that's not on our

1865
01:17:00,459 --> 01:16:57,500
website I think of getting it mixed up

1866
01:17:02,770 --> 01:17:00,469
with another one hahaha mm-hmm and he

1867
01:17:04,629 --> 01:17:02,780
said well i'm pretty sure i'm not but i

1868
01:17:06,100 --> 01:17:04,639
will double check and get back to you

1869
01:17:07,780 --> 01:17:06,110
and the journalist said well i didn't

1870
01:17:11,020 --> 01:17:07,790
have it in front of me so I can't you

1871
01:17:14,260 --> 01:17:11,030
tell at this point but he know that was

1872
01:17:16,600 --> 01:17:14,270
a big win for us absolutely well done

1873
01:17:19,540 --> 01:17:16,610
but well done Ben indeed you see that

1874
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:19,550
that that skeptical gene I think I can

1875
01:17:24,010 --> 01:17:21,770
feel it strongly folks I can feel it

1876
01:17:25,359 --> 01:17:24,020
strongly in my family yes all right I'm

1877
01:17:29,770 --> 01:17:25,369
glad if you're listening contact your

1878
01:17:31,030 --> 01:17:29,780
cousin well thank you dr. Rachel develop

1879
01:17:33,010 --> 01:17:31,040
and thank you for your doctor Rachel

1880
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:33,020
report saloon the show that was great

1881
01:17:38,050 --> 01:17:35,210
did you learn something I did I'm not

1882
01:17:41,200 --> 01:17:38,060
going to wear those there's a detox

1883
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:41,210
things on my feet anymore oh you mean

1884
01:17:44,919 --> 01:17:42,770
they were sucking toxins out of your

1885
01:17:46,810 --> 01:17:44,929
face I thought they were you know I just

1886
01:17:50,859 --> 01:17:46,820
woke up with soggy socks just go and get

1887
01:17:52,750 --> 01:17:50,869
a colon cop irrigation it's fine yes and

1888
01:17:54,370 --> 01:17:52,760
I'd like to thank Tiffany day thank you

1889
01:17:57,370 --> 01:17:54,380
Richard thank you for coming up anytime

1890
01:17:59,530 --> 01:17:57,380
and of course Dave our special guest

1891
01:18:03,040 --> 01:17:59,540
Dave the happy singer Dave the happy

1892
01:18:06,129 --> 01:18:03,050
singer com a bigger than decent reason

1893
01:18:07,810 --> 01:18:06,139
guys stay happy I could happen and until

1894
01:18:08,310 --> 01:18:07,820
next time it's goodbye from the think

1895
01:18:27,099 --> 01:18:08,320
tank

1896
01:18:32,449 --> 01:18:30,559
richard another gloriously cleansing

1897
01:18:34,459 --> 01:18:32,459
experience that zone was this way feel

1898
01:18:36,199 --> 01:18:34,469
quite clean now it's either my body or

1899
01:18:38,949 --> 01:18:36,209
my wallets being cleansed I'm not sure

1900
01:18:41,959 --> 01:18:38,959
no I mean I feel physically flushed yeah

1901
01:18:43,579 --> 01:18:41,969
so yeah we're not a great show and like

1902
01:18:45,619 --> 01:18:43,589
to thank all the listeners as well we

1903
01:18:47,179 --> 01:18:45,629
were growing in number you know and it's

1904
01:18:48,949 --> 01:18:47,189
great to see we've sort of popping up

1905
01:18:51,859 --> 01:18:48,959
and down the charts there in the iTunes

1906
01:18:54,169 --> 01:18:51,869
it's interesting and good to see this so

1907
01:18:55,939 --> 01:18:54,179
much interest in skepticism there is

1908
01:18:57,439 --> 01:18:55,949
worldwide because we're getting emails

1909
01:18:58,669 --> 01:18:57,449
from all over the world thank you for

1910
01:19:00,229 --> 01:18:58,679
writing into which we do love with

1911
01:19:02,119 --> 01:19:00,239
reading your emails yeah and we love the

1912
01:19:04,159 --> 01:19:02,129
we are we coming from down under and

1913
01:19:05,869 --> 01:19:04,169
doing our thing down here I checked the

1914
01:19:08,329 --> 01:19:05,879
chart so the other day the science

1915
01:19:10,339 --> 01:19:08,339
chance this is about four or five sort

1916
01:19:12,159 --> 01:19:10,349
of skeptical podcast yeah very popular

1917
01:19:14,269 --> 01:19:12,169
yeah yeah and I know there are some more

1918
01:19:16,099 --> 01:19:14,279
coming up soon well you know the young

1919
01:19:18,619 --> 01:19:16,109
Australian skeptics have a pod yes

1920
01:19:21,049 --> 01:19:18,629
that's that's quite the silly I just

1921
01:19:23,899 --> 01:19:21,059
have their own podcast I there's another

1922
01:19:25,579 --> 01:19:23,909
new one starting up I here soon goodness

1923
01:19:27,169 --> 01:19:25,589
me when the markets gonna be fun oh it's

1924
01:19:28,909 --> 01:19:27,179
terrible it's going to us competition

1925
01:19:30,919 --> 01:19:28,919
now we have to amalgamate I think we

1926
01:19:33,500 --> 01:19:30,929
could get a super podcast yeah we can

1927
01:19:36,889 --> 01:19:33,510
call have the skeptics and excellent oh

1928
01:19:38,719 --> 01:19:36,899
yeah good stuff well we will carry on

1929
01:19:40,159 --> 01:19:38,729
next week and thanks for listening again

1930
01:19:42,559 --> 01:19:40,169
thanks Richard for another great show

1931
01:19:44,659 --> 01:19:42,569
okay and you'll hear us all next week

1932
01:19:46,459 --> 01:19:44,669
everybody and it will be just as

1933
01:19:49,969 --> 01:19:46,469
cleansing and experience as it was this

1934
01:19:51,559 --> 01:19:49,979
week yes all our listeners between now

1935
01:19:58,699 --> 01:19:51,569
and the next show go and get cleansed

1936
01:20:01,129 --> 01:19:58,709
yeah detox goodbye step goodbye you've

1937
01:20:05,750 --> 01:20:01,139
been listening to the skeptic zone visit

1938
01:20:08,209 --> 01:20:05,760
our website at wwc a petting zoo TV for

1939
01:20:21,430 --> 01:20:08,219
comments contacts and extra video